Gates: Crimea is 'gone'

Politico ^ | 9 March 14 | KEVIN ROBILLARD

[SkyPilot]

Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates predicts that Russia will continue to control Crimea for the foreseeable future.

"I do not believe that Crimea will slip out of Russia's hand," he said in an interview aired on "Fox News Sunday."

"You think Crimea's gone?" host Chris Wallace asked.

"I do," Gates replied. Russia has bloodlessly seized control of Crimea over the past week and has moved to formally annex it. The Crimean parliament has scheduled a vote on whether to join Russia for next week.

"I think it's part of a long-term strategy on Putin's part to create a Russian sphere of influence, a Russian bloc," Gates said, adding later: "I don't think he will stop in Ukraine until there is essentially a pro-Russian government in Ukraine, in Kiev."

Gates said he supported efforts by Congress and the administration to increase sanctions on Russia.

[lodi90]

Just think about the copies of the ballot for the upcoming referendum... There is no “NO” on the ballot. It gives the choice of total withdrawal from Ukraine and immediate union with Russia or Withdraw from Ukraine, and join Russia later. They don’t even really offer the option of withdrawing and staying totally independent.

---

Of course the Crimean “vote” is a fraud. If there’s one thing Russians know how to do besides drink and use a sauna it is run sham elections.

[mac_truck]

Crimea declared independence in 1992. It refers to itself as an autonomous republic, with its own constitution.

Didn't know that, thanks.

[dfwgator]

[Verginius Rufus]

By the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848, Mexico ceded California and other territories to the US (present-day Nevada and Utah and parts of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming--the rest of Arizona and New Mexico was acquired 5 years later in the Gadsden Purchase).

Mexico had been sovereign over those territories since 1821 but its control was very feeble. Most of the population were Indians who had no loyalty to Mexico (if they were aware that they belonged to the government in Mexico City).

There were some Spanish-speakers in New Mexico and California descended from pre-1821 settlers. Most of the current Hispanic population of the Southwest is the result of post-1848 immigration.

Even if we had not forced Mexico to cede California in 1848, the gold rush was about to happen and it's hard to see how Mexico could have held on to California once there were hundreds of thousands of inhabitants there, with only a small minority being Spanish-speaking or having any ties to Mexico.

[steve86]

In a perfect world the United States would give the green light to annex Turkey on the condition that reastablish Constantinopal as the seat of the Greek Orthodox Church.

I'll have to study that suggestion.

[Mike Darancette]

So the Crimeans become Russian citizens with benefits and the freedom to travel within all of Russia. /sarc

[af_vet_1981]

You are correct. These people want to return, Russia wants them to return, the people voted to return, it is none of our business. Crimean people are mostly ethnic Russians, for them its going home.

Imagine immigrants in the United States voting to return to Mexico and Mexico voting to annex various states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizon, and California. International boundaries agreed upon by treaty are our business.

[Mike Darancette]

The more pro-Russians that leave the Ukraine the more apt it is to join the EU even maybe NATO. The Russkies may get 2-3 more Oblasts in the East which have large Russian ethnic population without bloodshed. The Oblast bordering Crimea is majority Ukrainian ethnicity.

[LeoWindhorse]

Just focusing on Ukraine .... There is nothing anyone can do , or probably should do . I vote no confidence in our present commander and chief , a band of idiots and cowards , set on gutting our military , culling out the true warriors and doing nothing other than advancing the agendas of pervs and reparation hounds .
Leave it alone , not our fight . Elect a different leader and start over . Obama has f-ed America and the world’s perception of us in general . No wonder Putin is laughing at Obama the dunce .

[stremba]

Okay, where did you take history? There was never a war between Spain and Mexico that was won by Spain. The only conflict between Spain and Mexico was the original revolution in which Mexico gained its independence; obviously Mexico won since they are in fact independent.

Further, the war in 1846 was between the US and Mexico; Spain had NOTHING to do with that war. Mexico was an independent nation by that point. It was a border dispute in Texas, along with lingering resentment on Mexico’s part over the annexation of Texas by the US that led to this war. This was the war that resulted in MEXICO turning over the territory that now comprises the American southwest. Spain did not control that territory by the time of the Mexican war, so there was no way that Spain could have ceded the territory to the US.

Spain and the US did fight a war, mainly over the Spanish treatment of Cuba and the rebels fighting against Spanish control of the island. However, that occurred in 1898, long after control of the southwestern states passed to the US. The only territory ceded by Spain to the US was Florida, back in the early 19th century and some Pacific island territories, most notably the Phillipines as a result of the Spanish-American war.

[svcw]

The Spanish were in California and other western states, Mexico was not, the US got the land from Spain.

[stremba]

From a Wilsonian self-determination perspective, the Sudetanland was German. Germany wanted the Sudetanland, the Sudetanland wanted Germany. Like it or not, them’s the facts.

Obviously, that wasn’t quite the whole story, was it? Perhaps annexation of the Crimea is not the whole story now either???

[stremba]

Sounds like “stay part of Ukraine” didn’t make the ballot either.

[Justa]

“Under the Mexican constitution, the US had no right to take it.”

Except the US didn’t “take” California. Mexico ceded their northern territories to the US in the treaty of Guadalupe - Hidalgo which ended the Mexican - American war -which was started by Mexico.

[stremba]

Go re-read your history books. By 1846, Spain had no presence in any territory that is now part of the US. That area was part of Mexico in 1846. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago was concluded between the US and Mexico; Spain was not a party to it. This treaty ended the Mexican-American War in 1848 and called for MEXICO to cede the land that now comprises the Southwestern US, and called for the US to pay $15 million to the government of Mexico directly and for the US to pay $3.25 million on claims of US citizens against the Mexican government. Spain lost effective control over its viceroyality of New Spain in 1821 with the conclusion of the Treaty of Cordoba. Spain rejected the treaty and for a time refused to recognize Mexican independence. However, in 1836, Spain ratified the treaty of Santa-Maria Calatrava which legally recognized Mexico as independent. All of this occurred BEFORE the territory in question passed into US control in 1848, so it is not possible that Spain gave up the territory. It most certainly was ceded by Mexico to the US.

[Cowboy Bob]

California declared its independence from Mexico, and then the US grabbed California.

[Verginius Rufus]

Spain defeated the Mexican war of independence from 1810 to 1815. From 1816 to 1821 the country was firmly under Spanish control (with some ineffective resistance continuing).

Then in 1821 the upper classes in Mexico felt threatened by the Revolution of 1820 in Spain and the promise to restore the Constitution of 1812, and proclaimed independence. They were willing to recognize Ferdinand VII as their sovereign but the Spanish government rejected that, so the creole general Agustin Iturbide, who had earlier fought on the royalist side, made himself emperor of Mexico.

[Justa]

"California declared its independence from Mexico, and then the US grabbed California."

Lol. Don't you mean the Americans living in California declared their independence from Mexico?

Here's the flag of the newly independent California:

And the US didn't grab anything. Mexico ceded the territories following their loss in a war they started.

It was a good deal for Mexico considering their nation was almost completely conquered.

"Outnumbered militarily and with many of its large cities occupied, Mexico could not defend itself; the country was also faced with many internal divisions, inclucing the Caste War of Yucatán. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, signed on February 2, 1848, by American diplomat Nicholas Trist and Mexican plenipotentiary representatives Luis G. Cuevas, Bernardo Couto, and Miguel Atristain, ended the war. The treaty gave the U.S. undisputed control of Texas, established the U.S.-Mexican border of the Rio Grande, and ceded to the United States the present-day states of California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, most of Arizona and Colorado, and parts of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming. In return, Mexico received $15,000,000[56] ($497,452,885 today) – less than half the amount the U.S. had attempted to offer Mexico for the land before the opening of hostilities[57] – and the U.S. agreed to assume $3.25 million ($88,587,500 today) in debts that the Mexican government owed to U.S. citizens.[17]