[Revolting cat!]

No, I’m not in favor of ad hominem attacks, but I am in favor of a muscular foreign policy. (None of us has any influence over it, let’s admit it at the outset, it’s not only Jeff Head’s ideas that will be ignored!) Reagan executed aggressive foreign policies. You are the one who brought up nuclear war. That’s projecting, in my view, and projecting too much into Jeff’s ideas that I happen to support.

The U.S. interest all over the world for as long as I remember has been freedom, is that not enough? With the Obamas in power the country has abandoned promoting this idea. Ukraine desperately wants to leave Russia’s sphere of influence, join EU, join NATO, what do we do, follow our emaciated leader in the White House and tell Ukraine, sorry fellows you belong to the Bear?

[Mariner]

"The U.S. interest all over the world for as long as I remember has been freedom, is that not enough? "

Yes, that's enough for our vocal and, potentially, economic support. It's enough for our moral support...and most certainly our sympathies.

But what Jeff advocated and you seconded is a certain trip to full-scale war with Russia.

We have no existential interest...hell, casual interest at best...and we would be faced with existential war.

[Jeff Head]

Thanks...you are spot on.

We happen to have a signed security agreement with the Ukraine...Obama is showing that he has no intention of honoring our own commitments.

Putin is showing he can run rough shod over the US. That leads to very, very bad places.

The Ukrainians have already showed that they are willing to fight and die for their country and their liberty. The Constitution they adopted in 2004 (from ones earlier after the fall of the Soviets) is very similar to our own. God bless and help them.

God would that we had leaders...and a large majority of our own people who would be willing to stand for those principles.

Only the Crimea is off the table now. And I am afraid that is irretrievable. The Russians have and had no intention of giving up their base on the Black Sea. We could have seen this coming from a mile off had we had leaders (political and military) who had their eye on the ball. But this administration has subverted, emasculated, and brought down our military high command and run off or retired anyone who strongly would support such principles.

If we do not stand with our friends, then ultimately we will be forced to stand alone when there is little hope for success.

George Bush knew how to face Putin off over a high stakes poker game. And he succeeded in Georgia in stopping Putin before he took the entire country. We could do the same now...and the stakes are even higher. I pray we shall...or that someone strong in Europe (Merkel?) will.

Otherwise we are going to see Putin go after the Eastern European countries one after another. Probably the Baltics next. After that, he will create opportunities to weaken and subvert Poland, once he has them flanked on either side. And anywhere along that path a much worse, open war could develop. If we do nothing, we will look back on this day and rue the day...either us or our kids and grandkids..

George Bush confronts Putin in Beijing at the 2008 Olympics on hearing of the Russian invasion of Georgia

I had a number of issues with Bush. How he dealt with Putin after 2002 and 2003 was not one of them.

[ecomcon]

Ukraine is a divided nation. They elected Yanukovych. Look at the electoral maps. It’s just not true that Ukraine desperately wants to leave Russia’s sphere of influence. Many do, many don’t.