The Electric Car Boondoggle (Cost comparisons)

American Thinker ^ | February 22, 2014 | Matthew Hurwitz

[jazusamo]

There are two electric cars on the market that have received a lot of attention in the media. One is GM's Chevy Volt and the other is the Tesla Model S. Extravagant claims have been made by both manufacturers to have us believe that these that these automobiles are practical and economical to drive. As we shall see, that is not really true when one takes into account all the factors which contribute to the total operating cost of each of these two vehicles.

Chevy Volt

The manufacturer claims that "The Chevy Volt is the most fuel-efficient car with a gasoline engine currently sold in the U.S. -- and it's easy to see why. While most plug-in cars can make it about 20 miles tops before switching to hybrid mode, the Volt can run up to 38 miles on battery before switching over to its 1.4-liter four-cylinder engine." GM describes their product as follows: "The Volt is powered by an electric motor that's connected to a 1.4-liter four-cylinder gasoline engine. It runs exclusively on battery power until the charge drops to 30 percent and the gas motor kicks in. There are four modes -- Normal, Hold, Sport and Mountain ....When running on gasoline, the Volt returns 35 mpg city and 40 mpg highway." When all of the energy, battery plus gasoline, is used the total range of the car is 270 miles. At that point one must recharge the battery which takes nearly 10 hours if the car is plugged into a 120 V outlet. The charging time is less if one has a 240 V outlet and a special battery charger.

[truth_seeker]

“However all taxpayers are subsidizing electrics and hybrids for those that can afford them when in fact they themselves cannot afford them, in my view that’s wrong.”

All taxpayers are subsidizing Toyota/Lexus hybrids? All taxpayers are subsidizing VW, Nissan, Honda, BMW, hybrids?

Isn’t your complaint only with firms that got money directly from government subsidies, without repaying the money?

[jazusamo]

I’m referring to plug ins.

http://www.plugincars.com/federal-and-local-incentives-plug-hybrids-and-electric-cars.html

[ckilmer]

you got a point there. I don’t know how that shakes out. But if it were a serious problem, the demand for the car would go down and the stock price would fall from the stratosphere.

[WilliamRobert]

Amortize doesn't that mean horny? .

[jjotto]

There are no “quickest badass” electrics or hybrids that don’t have comparably priced, conventionally engined competitors that are as quick or quicker.

[Phlyer]

It depends on what your criteria for 'works great' is.

Of course. It would appear your criteria is: If you put unlimited money into a hybrid, can you get it to perform better than a car that costs 1/10 as much? I expect you could.

But if you let me have an unlimited budget, could I produce something that I called a hybrid that outperformed even the vehicles you mentioned? I expect I could. For example, if I put a brake/generator on an F-16 to recharge the existing battery after taxi I could call it a hybrid (even though recharging the battery is a negligible drain on the generator once the main engine is running) and I'd have performance that Porsche could only dream about.

But with equal constraints in every way *except* that one is a hybrid (a meaningful hybrid, where the battery/motors contribute significantly to the overall performance/range, etc. of the vehicle) and one is not, then the non-hybrid will be less expensive to own and to operate unless your driving is almost exclusively slow-speed, low-acceleration, start-and stop where the energy wasted idling in traffic is greater than the energy lost accelerating the heavier hybrid vehicle.

[Rockpile]

Seems to me that hybrid delivery vehicles in urban areas would be a good use of the gas/electric combination, more so than passenger cars.

[Phlyer]

I'm not sure I understand your question. If you look at the math in this article, any high-mileage car (which is largely depreciated) will win over any new car. It might not win overall if the cost of maintenance for an old car becomes excessive.

On the other hand, if you're talking about the best, highest miles-per-gallon gasoline-powered Civic versus a Prius, then that question was answered in the article. That is another example of the comparison between the conventional subcompact car and the Volt, stepped up one level in cost (Volt/Sub-compact stepped up to Prius/Civic). The ratios will pretty much hold - the Prius will cost three times as much to operate when you consider only fuel/energy and depreciation. If you add in maintenance (battery replacement on the Prius) the ratio gets even worse.

If anything, the Prius will be worse in comparison to a Civic because they can hardly give Volts away so no one is paying a premium like they are sometimes paying for a Prius.

The clearest statement of hybrids that I have found is analogous to the statement about lotteries. A lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math. A hybrid (or all-electric) is a car for people who are bad at math.

Or for smug, self-satisfied people who like to 'feel good' about driving a hybrid regardless of the math, and regardless of the true environmental impact.

[diogenes ghost]

Ummmm, no.

My criteria is 'does a hybrid hypercar outperform a normal one?'

And the answer is unquestionably yes.

You see, I dearly love vehicles that burn copious amounts of carbon based fuels but if adding an electric to the mix allows me to wax the other guy, then sign me up.

The 918 and P1 are rather pricy, granted, but cheaper and quicker than the Veyron, which is petrol only.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

The OPEC cartel has lost a lot of its price-fixing powers in recent years. More supply = lower prices. The same could be said for lower demand = lower prices (what you’re advocating).

[BfloGuy]

Let’s suppose that you spend 20 minutes of your life per week getting gas. That’s like 17 hours per year. Suppose you spent that 17 hours doing something that you enjoy. An economic value should be assigned to that.

Of course! All value is subjective.

If it weren't for the government subsidies, I'd be singing the praises of the electric car experiment.

[volunbeer]

Thanks - I have always suggested the Civic high mileage car as the best buy for compact gas saver. I knew it would come out ahead, but was curious to see the math. I have a friend who has over 240k on one and it is still going.

FRegards