Posted on 02/21/2014 9:08:20 PM PST by Sideshow Bob
Fed Register/Vol. 75, No. 116/Thu, June 17, 2010/ 34553 (10s of millions will lose empl insurance)
When you bring out the Hellmann’s, you bring out the best. ;-D
If you look at ‘the facts’ Cruz launched his many hour Senate floor speech calling for complete defunding of Obamacare, then called on the Senate GOP to vote against the House GOP CR bill which defunded Obamacare, because Reid was going to modify it to remove the defunding parts.
That followed Cruz in those defund Obamacare commercials that were played over and over on cable TV.
But there was one large flaw that made Obama winning a certainty: Obama care funding was exempt from a shutdown.
The government shut down and Obamacare stayed funded.
That ‘delay’ claim is just talk radio rewriting history. It came up after Reid passed the CR to the House.
That claim that Sowell ‘attacked’ Cruz is just victim cult lies.
He logically and civilly stated a disagreement and his own position on the issue.
‘
Those who have no real argument call disagreeing an ‘attack’ Its braindead cult stuff.
I will quote Joe Willson, “You lie!” And below is my support. ; ) Sowell: Cruz Control? Senator Ted Cruz has not yet reached the point where he can make policy, rather than just make political trouble. But there are already disquieting signs that he is looking out for Ted Cruz — even if that sets back the causes he claims to be serving. Those causes are not being served when Senator Cruz undermines the election chances of the only political party that has any chance of undoing the disasters that Barack Obama has already inflicted on the nation — and forestalling new disasters that are visible on the horizon. To make my point, Sowell agrees with me when it comes to the GOP-e. Sowell: Cruz Control? Part II - GOP leaders ignore his appeal at GOP’s own peril However unjustified Senator Cruz’s actions, the very fact that a freshman Senator can so quickly gain so many supporters, with so much enthusiasm, ought to be a loud warning to the Republican establishment that they have long been a huge disappointment to a wide range of Republican voters and supporters. Before this paragraph, Sowell attacks/criticizes Cruz unnecessarily in view of his latter paragraph. That is why I take issue with Sowell. He knows how piss poor the GOP-e leadership has been. His critique/attack of Cruz is illogical. The Republican establishment’s criticisms of Senator Cruz are criticisms of his rule-or-ruin strategy, which can destroy whatever chance Republicans have of taking back the Senate in 2014 and taking back the White House in 2016. And, without political power, there is no real hope of changing things in Washington. Senator Cruz’s filibuster last year got the Republicans blamed for shutting down the government — and his threatened filibuster this year forced several Republican Senators to jeopardize their own reelection prospects by voting to impose cloture, to prevent Cruz from repeating his self-serving grandstand play of last year. The Republicans need every vote they can get in the Senate — plus additional votes by defeating some Democrats who are running for the Senate this fall. It can be a very close call. Jeopardizing the reelection of current Republican Senators is an act of utter irresponsibility, a high risk with zero benefits to anyone except Ted Cruz — and the Democrats. The GOP-e made no consistent year after year attack on Obamacare after the publication of the June 17, 2010 Federal Register informing Americans (post #81 - READ THE REGISTER) of the debacle that is Obamacare. Cruz/Lee did make a big deal only to be attacked by the GOP-e. And now lookie, we have Republican governors agreeing with Obama and Democrats that Obamacare is here to stay. Governors: ‘Obamacare’ here to stay But governors from both parties say a full repeal of the law would be complicated at best, if not impossible, as states move forward with implementation and begin covering millions of people — both by expanding Medicaid rolls for lower-income residents or through state or federal exchanges that offer federal subsidies to those who qualify No need to respond. I won the debate. ; )
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3124409/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3124780/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3126240/posts
When you negotiate you begin with everything you want including the kitchen sink. Where you end up, is where you end up. Cruz/Lee started with defunding. It's hard to negotiate when your effing bosses bitch about it being a “tactical mistake” weeks before the shutdown. WTF! THAT IS TOTAL BULL SHIT. What kind of negotiating is that?
After a week, it was apparent what a colossal failure Obamacare is. BUT because of the backstabbing GOP-e jackasses, the game was lost. The way the GOP-e bosses positioned themselves they couldn't even claim a "We told you so!" And why the hell was Boehner agreeing with Leno that the shutdown was the Republican's fault in particular Cruz's? If I were Boehner I would have said, "Had I known what an epic failure Obamacare was, I wouldn't have caved. And the shutdown was Obama's fault. His Administration knew how bad the law was and he did nothing except shutdown the government." But no, Boehner and the rest of the GOP-e effed Cruz and the American public.
There's yet another contradiction. Isn't negotiation with Obama just the selling out of principles? (we are lectured?)
The battle was lost when we were lectured that killing all CRs in the Senate, even the one the house passed, then in the house House, would defund Obamacare, proven not true, then Obama would blink (and cave) and force Reid to pass a bill that specifically defunds Obamacare.)
Obamacare funding was exempt from the shutdown as it was prefunded.
In fact the shutdown lasted two weeks and then the House passed a number of partial spending bills like funding the troops, AND THOSE PARTIAL SPENDING BILLS DIDN'T DEFUND OBAMACARE. So this was already a partial surrender, but we were lectured that it was brilliant strategy.
I was reminded of the 1960s movie Path's of Glory when the French General demanded his own troops be shelled, then executed, for cowardice, when it was his own plan that was bad.
Sowell has a valid point that this type of lunacy only helps Dems.
No, after a week no-one heard that Obamacare was a failure because the government was shutdown. a shutdown we were promised would repeal Obamacare, and it didn't.
So the first two weeks of Obamacare all the news stories were about when the GOP house would pass a ‘clean’ CR to 'get the government running' again.
Americans would not find out ‘what a colossal failure Obamacare is’ until Bohner put that negotiated CR up for a vote and the government resumed operation mid October.
Yep, ONLY after the ‘surrender’ all news stories were about Obamacare website and cancellations and Obama’s lie.
The two week shutdown protected him from that.
“...I am the most civil and polite freeper on this board...”
Yeah, I’ll agree there.
Low fat mayo and women only, I’m in.
Do the women have to be low fat too? Cause I bet Gabourey Sidibe would be game if you asked her. ;f
I’m just sayin’ I ain’t gettin’ into no mayo-wrestlin’ match with dudes..Not no-way, no-how...
Ain’t normal now, never was, and never will be normal...
RE Gabourey Sidibe: Whoa... that there’s a BIG woman...
In the interest of good taste, I propose ending debate on this mayo/wrestling/horribly obese lifeforms line of thinking.
It’s just wrong, as in not right type of wrong.
Ick...
“...I propose ending debate ...”
Yeah, me too...
And if so, then isn't this an indictment of our representative government in general? I put it to you - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!
I'm sorry, that's what all of your arguments sound like, except a little less cogent.
Cruz's stand was: if the Dems were not going to accept anything other than a clean CR, it didn't matter what the GOP leverage item was. Why not make the leverage item the #1 issue that conservatives (and allegedly the GOPe) wanted addressed? What other issue would motivate the citizenry to bombard Congress with phone calls or email?
Even if the stand and shutdown was a negotiation tool to achieve a delay in Obamacare implementation, it would have given Cruz & Lee and the House Tea Party Caucus more time to compel the GOPe leadership to remove their thumbs from their a$$es and do something - anything - about Obamacare and runaway federal spending.
The battle was lost when we were lectured that killing all CRs in the Senate, even the one the house passed, then in the house House, would defund Obamacare, proven not true, then Obama would blink (and cave) and force Reid to pass a bill that specifically defunds Obamacare.) Obamacare funding was exempt from the shutdown as it was prefunded.
In fact the shutdown lasted two weeks and then the House passed a number of partial spending bills like funding the troops, AND THOSE PARTIAL SPENDING BILLS DIDN'T DEFUND OBAMACARE. So this was already a partial surrender, but we were lectured that it was brilliant strategy.
Nice passive voice. No direct attribution for who was doing any lecturing. How can Cruz be at fault for Harry Reid not taking up any CR for Senate consideration? And if you and Sowell want to talk about pointless, futile principled gestures, why should the House even bother to pass any bill or CR if Harry Reid is unwilling to take up the issue in the Senate? Even if Harry Reid allows a House bill to enter the Senate, he will "fill up the tree" with proposed amendments of "strike 'a' and insert 'the'".
Sowell has a valid point that this type of lunacy only helps Dems.
Let me fix your comment.
Sowell has a valid misses the point that this type of lunacy only helps Dems harms the GOPe.
There fixed it.
The shutdown fiasco wasn't all his fault, he had a few talk radio show hosts beating the drum for it.
Here's more obvious evidence that it was a loser from the start, meaning trying to force Obama and Reid to pass a bill that specifically defunds Obamacare, by shutting down the government until they comply :
1) Obamacare exempt from shutdowns
2) Repeated and not believed claims that those pressing this approach are against a shutdown (arguing against your entire approach and sole strategy?)
3) House passing separate bills like funding troops that don't touch Obamacare is supposed to be a brilliant move?
It contracted the whole ‘don't blink’ stand.
4) Defunding Obamacare wouldn't do anything about present policies being cancelled
5) Shutdown kept Obamacare failures out of the news.
Nothing about this ever made any sense from the start, in fact this fiasco just made Bohner stronger.
That was the other crazy part.
How is this negotiation that was later claimed to be the whole purpose of the defund shutdown any different than compromising principles? Which we are never supposed to do? For any reason? Or are we? That was really the whole secret purpose? Compromise? Really
I need to add that to the list.
Your 20/20 hindsight is flawless (/sarc). Whether Obamacare was prefunded, funded, postfunded, deemed to be funded, 10/net 30, COD, DOA, POS is irrelevant.
The purpose was exactly what Cruz claimed it to be: to stop Obamacare by any means necessary. You & Sowell can dislike Cruz, the tactic or the strategy all you want, it was genuine and principled. And if the GOPe had its itty-bitty feelings hurt, then GREAT!!
I hope every conservative American undertakes every possible action to defeat GOPe incumbents. We'll put our GOP unity hat back on after the primaries.
this wasn't the only fiasco that irked me.
That tax cut extension fiasco at the end of 2012 had similarities to this, it was based on a very similar falsehood :That taxes would NOT go up if no bill reached Obama’s desk.
Designed to lose to Dems.
And that was unrelated to Cruz.
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