America and Ukraine: The threat to freedom

The Economist ^ | 02/20/2014 | The Economist editorial staff

[The KG9 Kid]

AMERICA and Europe, exhausted by futile wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and by their own financial crises, have over the past five years come to a tacit consensus that they lack the power and the political will to bring democracy to far-flung, failing authoritarian states. That seemed a sad but wise conclusion so long as those failing authoritarian states really were far-flung. Then, yesterday, the zone of failing authoritarian states arrived at our doorstep. The massacres of demonstrators in Kiev's Independence Square are as awful as anything that took place during the coup in Cairo last year or the initial crackdowns on demonstrations in Damascus two years ago. In Egypt and Syria, America and Europe have largely thrown up their hands, recognising that such states are simply too alien and too far away, in terms of political culture, development levels, and strategic importance, for intensive Western intervention to be promising or worthwhile. Ukraine is different, and the stakes are higher. For the first time since Yugoslavia in 1991, a European country bordering EU member states is on the brink of civil war.

[Revolting cat!]

It’s so uplifting to see so many on this forum on the side of corrupt, murderous Ukrainian oligarchy.

[LowTaxesEqualsProsperity]

Poland wants nothing to do with West Ukrainian lunatics, because they realize that the core of the so- called opposition is made up of fanatic, radical, fascist nationalists loudly supporting the past deeds and celebrating the memory of the Stepen Bandera's Ukrainian Insurgent Army, which engaged in unthinkable massacres of Polish population in Eastern Poland. The Polish do not like this bloody attempt at coup d'etat at all. Not a one bit. Dr Aleksander Korman "Ukraińska Powstańcza Armia na terenach II Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej i jej stosunek do ludności polskiej", "Na Rubieży" 35/1999: Below are some examples of the practice of physical torture and atrocities by the OUN-UPA terrorists against men, women and children of Polish nationality: 1 Hammering large and thick nail into the skull 2 Peel the skin of the head of hair (scalping) 3 A blow to the skull with back of an axe 4 A blow to the forehead with back of an axe 5 Engraving on the forehead "eagle" 6 Sticking a bayonet in the temple of the head 7 Plucking out one eye 8 Plucking out two eyes 9 Cutting off the nose 10 Cutting off one ear 12 Razing off both ears 13 Perforation of ear with a pointed thick wire through the other ear 14 Cutting off lips 15 Clipping tongue 16 Slitting the throat 17 Slitting the throat and pulling out the tongue through the opening 18 Slitting the throat and inserting rags into the hole 19 Knocking out the teeth 20 Breaking the jaw 21 Disruption of the mouth from ear to ear 22 Gagging still living victims while transporting 23 Undercutting the neck with a knife or a sickle 24 Blow with an axe to the neck 25 Splitting the head vertically with an axe 26 Screwing head backwards 27 Making pulp out of the head by putting in between clamps tightened with screws 28 Cutting off the head with a sickle 29 Cutting off the head with a scythe 30 Cutting off the head with an axe 31 Blow with an axe to the neck 32 Stabbing the head 33 Cutting and pulling narrow strips of skin from the back 34 Various stabbing to the back 35 Blows of a bayonet in the back 36 Breaking the rib bones of the chest 37 Blow with a knife or bayonet through the heart or around the heart 38 Stabbing a knife or a bayonet of the chest 39 Trimming women breast with a sickle 40 Trimming women breast and sprinkling wounds with salt 41 Cutting off victim's male genitals with a sickle 42 Cutting the trunk in half with chainsaw for carpentry 43 Stabbing the abdomen with a knife or a bayonet 44 Piercing the belly of a pregnant woman with a bayonet 45 Cutting stomach of adults and pulling out the intestines 46 Cutting belly of a woman in advanced pregnancy in place of the removed fetus insertion of a live cat and stitching up the stomach 47 Cutting the belly and pouring boiling water inside 48 Cutting the belly of a woman, inserting stones into it and then throwing her into the river 49 Cutting out pregnant women's belly and throwing broken glass inside 50 Pulling out a vein from one groin down to the feet 51 Inserting burning iron into the vagina 52 Inserting pine cone from the apex side into the vagina 53 Inserting sharpened pin into the vagina and pushing up into the throat, inside and out 54 Cutting the front of the women torso with a gardening knife, from the vagina up to her neck and leaving the insides on the outside 55 Hanging the victims by the bowels 56 Inserting glass bottle into the vagina and crushing it 57 Inserting glass bottle into the anus and crushing it 58 Cutting belly and pouring into the interior food for hungry pigs, which tore it out along with intestines and other innards 59 Cutting off one hand with an axe 60 Cutting off both hands with an axe Half of my family (from Poland) was wiped out in the Holocaust. My dad was in Auschwitz, Sachsenhausen and other death camps, with German and West Ukrainian guards. The Ukrainians were worse than the S.S. Murderous crazies. Being unleashed by the E.U. and with U.S. support.

[LowTaxesEqualsProsperity]

Svoboda worships the OUN. And emulates it.

[familyop]

I Am a Ukrainian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hvds2AIiWLA

Shocking Riot Videos and Pics: Watch Protesters Destroy Armored Vehicle With Molotov Cocktails
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3124556/posts

Ukraine: Security Service killed woman
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=63e_1392815494

Woman Shot Dead in Ukraine
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=592_1392817017

Ukraine: Tenopil, Ukrainian Police Declare That They Are On Side of Protesters
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dbd_1392772781#iyBzVJKyi2KBhUbi.99

[wideawake]

We don't need to get involved.

Our cowardly President's response was not: "We support freedom in Ukraine and we wish the reformers well."

Nor was it: "Let them settle matters themselves. We have no opinion."

It was: "Russia, can we hold your coat if you decide to intervene against these freedom-loving troublemakers?"

[Organic Panic]

The EU won’t lift a finger. They are too busy in Brussels figuring out the legal size of peas and bananas to care about such trifling issues such as unrest in Ukraine. Putin sure will have fun when he occupies the spigots on the shores of Odessa and Sabastopol. He already got ‘em from the Georgians.

[wideawake]

Your post is poorly-formatted nonsense.

These are not blood and soil Ukrainian fascists - those groups exist mostly in your fevered dreams.

These are people who want to live in a reasonably free and prosperous country.

They are looking for EU membership, for goodness' sake.

[wideawake]

Have Petrol-filled beer bottles used as Molotov cocktails ever changed a government?

They have.

That's the French model.

[wideawake]

But was there really a "massacre" of demonstrators in Kiev's Independence Square? What are the facts of the matter?

Five people were killed by British troops during the Boston Massacre.

@6 and counting have been killed so far in Independence Square.

So yes, there has already been a massacre. Not a "massacre" but a massacre.

[MrB]

Rush said something interesting today.

In the Ukraine we have protesters that are calling for limits on government power, and government enforcers that are cracking the heads of the protesters.

Which side would Obama be on if it was happening here?
Rhetorical question, I know.

[nascarnation]

This was debated on another thread.

In my opinion, the UN sends troops in to backstop the regime’s Homeland Security against us.

Interestingly their two largest force components are from Pakistan and Bangladesh. So the philosophies would mesh well.

[The KG9 Kid]

Tell me about it. I agree that it's 'Not Our Fight' and respect Washington's advice about 'foreign entanglements', but sufficient crates of sterile SKS rifles showing up without any 'Lend-Lease' strings attached doesn't rise to a foreign entanglement.

[wideawake]

Sorry, that was 26. And the latest article from IBT actually says as many as 35.

[wideawake]

Very true.

[free from tyranny]

The irony only exists if you believe that our government is using our military as a sword for righteous democracy. HA!!
The sword wielded by OUR military at the behest of the US gov’t is in fact controlled by the international banking cabal. Plain and simple! Democracy is only as good as the Federal Reserve Note that it is printed on.
“ If you like your Dollar democracy “, “you can keep your dollar democracy”. If you don't.....we will destroy you!!!

[Revolting cat!]

Reagan would have demonstrated leadership in this matter.
We have pussies in Washington now.

[wideawake]

controlled by the international banking cabal. Plain and simple

Leave some Reynolds Wrap for the rest of us.

[wolf78]

The Germans tired of their free spending, chronically indebted, non productive Western and Southern European partners will once again shift its economic focus toward the boundless resources and potential of Russia.

Doubtful. Right now it's the exact opposite. Ten years ago Germany was optimistic about the economic potential of Russia, and it turned out to be a huge disappointment. Sure, Mercedes sells some 6-wheel drive G-Wagens to the oligarchs. But there is no democratic reform, no true middle class, lousy productivity, no potential for investment. Just crony capitalism and paralizing corruption. Russia squanders the money it earns by selling its natural resources on an ineffective system instead of investing it in its future (technology etc.).

[Dead Corpse]

Yeah, well... No.

But thanks for playing.

[wolf78]

Fact: Targeted killings by (mostly likely SBU) snipers. Demonstrators shot in the head, heart, lungs.

Sure, some police officers were indeed "defending themselves" at the fringes of the Maidan square. But the massacre of demonstrators did indeed happen.