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My hopie changie thing is that after all this violence there’s a transformation of Ukrainian minds, death of Sovok and realization that earlier ways of living cannot work any more. That’s the main requirement before the practical decisions can be made

Ahh, see, you need the plan of what is to come after, now.

If you don't have a plan...

Well, there is a plan, you just don't know what it is.

It's not enough to say we can't go on as we are. You have to have specifics on what you are going to institute. You also need to keep track of them once the "revolution" succeeds to make sure the changes happen as intended.

The whole thing is very hard to control when it sinks to violence on a large scale.

Such a situation allows a small, well-organized and trained team of operatives to "magically" appear when the dust settles and they are firmly in control. And no one really knew what was going on until it was too late.

Ahh, see, you need the plan of what is to come after, now. If you don't have a plan... Well, there is a plan, you just don't know what it is.

See post 106. What I was getting at is more fundamental than having a plan. There are already the initiatives planned, but what's point if it's a culture where laws are not set in stone, they're malleable. You know, communist countries were the most democratic country in the world, on paper that is. There's theory, and then there's practice.

Similarly, when Yanukovich is succeeded by somebody else, it'll be very likely that the successor will be corrupt as well. Unless the people and voters stop accepting corruption as part of their lives, it's not going to stop, they'll be stepping on the same rake over and over. Also, if only Ukraine was in a vacuum and tried to solve this problem independently, but alas, there are outside forces and Putin has a 5 year plan to restore the USSR

>>>My hopie changie thing is that after all this violence there’s a transformation of Ukrainian minds, death of Sovok and realization that earlier ways of living cannot work any more. That’s the main requirement before the practical decisions can be made

Ahh, see, you need the plan of what is to come after, now.

If you don’t have a plan... <<<

Here we have a difference between Founding Fathers and Kiev mob. It is all hope and change dope for fellow travellers within it. Yep, sure, we who are working have shaped our economy for a Russian market, we who are too lazy to work are living off a Russian paid welfare but we hate them because some 80 years ago a bunch of Ukrainian urban communists led by Georgian tyrant made some of our rural folks starving.

Why won’t you work to build a base for European integration first the way some Baltic states or Poland did at the time? Don’t blame your government, Yanukovitz was in power for only a brief period of time, before him you had pro-Western administrations for a couple of decades.

What are their legacy? A billion-dollar personal accounts in Swiss banks instead of a billion-ruble Yanukovitz accounts in Bank of Moscow? What difference does it make for the rest of Ukrainians?

They are rioting for something they don’t know what and we all know that nothing of value can ever come out of it.

A total economical collapse due to a shutdown of Russian trade is a first consequence, and another series of riots due to your analogue of EBT card not working because of a Russian aid cut off.

Yes, you have a chance to build it from scratch but I see neither plan nor leaders. All we can see is an organized mob and it’s only objective is to burn a government.

It seems like Moldova, Albania and Honduras are your role models, not Poland, Czech Republic or Estonia.