Posted on 01/06/2014 4:32:25 PM PST by SkyPilot
Led by Paul Ryan and Patty Murray but abetted by Barack Obama, Congress recently gambled with our nation’s future for an extremely modest short-term gain.
In doing so, it was given aid and comfort by knowledge-starved pundits, axe-grinding editorial boards, and self-anointed armchair analysts everywhere, as it left the military and veteran community standing with their jaws on the ground in despairing disbelief. Exploiting pressure to strike a budget compromise, Ryan and Murray entered into an unholy alliance to reduce veteran pensions – including those already vested under previous covenants – by an average of $84,000 to $120,000.
They obscured this act, as often happens when attempting to mislead, by employing complex-sounding budget doublespeak to minimize the magnitude of the associated moral breach as well as the consequences to veterans and families. In a way, this debacle can be seen as part of our nation’s continual inability to comprehend and bear the costs of being a global superpower with quasi-imperial interests secured by less than one-half of one percent of its population. But the particulars in this case suggest something more disturbing lurking behind the standard wallet-grabbing Congressional milieu: a startling absence of strategic deliberation. When such a deficit impairs elected leaders responsible for national security, potentially grave consequences attend.
Good strategists always ask of any potential course of action two key questions. First, what will this do for us? And second, what will this do to us? Given the dearth of statesmanly impulse at the national level in modern America, it is perhaps unsurprising that in crafting the recent budget, Paul Ryan and Patty Murray asked only the former question, leaving the latter for others to worry about.
The provision at issue retroactively renegotiated the deferred compensation of more than two million military veterans...
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
“And you support them...”
No, you support them.
See how that works?
Now you are just being stupid. You have posted multiple posts on this thread alone supporting the reduction of military retirement pay, while refusing to point out a SINGLE good thing that will happen because of it. Thus, you obviously support what the democrats and GOP-E are doing: cutting military benefits to partially (15%) offset the costs of giving money to illegal immigrants.
That was the choice before Congress, and that is what they decided, and you have been strenuously supporting their action.
So, Mr RFEngineer - just what good things is Congress going to do by raiding the pension fund of retirees? Come on, tell us!
Yes it is. It is trying to destroy in from within. Examples? This may seem just swell to what seems to be your Libertarian leanings. First is gays in the military. Second is women on combat ships and in deployed combat units. Then there is the elimination of the traditional 4/2 or 3/3 service obligation to an eight year or more first time enlistment obligation.
There are troops seeing four and five one year deployments to war zones not that you would care right? Then there is the Liberals within the military justice system using ever means possible to punish troops in combat while an Islamic Doctor planned a murdering rampage at Ft Hood. No one could act because he was Islamic. No one could speak evil against him becausew he was special. WOUNDED TROOPS WERE DENIED COMPENSATION AS WERE MURDERRS SERVICEMENS FAMILIES! Are you happy now? Likely so because it saved you a dollar. PC is rampant in the military. PC destroys. PC is a war. It is Marxism.
Had he been so called Jewish or Christian he's been dead by order of Court Martial within two years of the incident. Political Correctness is destroying the military and the government is applying it. If you think not then you are likely out numbered 1000-1 by Vets on FR.
Like all government bureaucracies the military is wasteful and unaccountable.
That is a completely different issue and mainly on the civilian contracted end where political influenced contracts are awarded to politicians {cough cough} donor friends amd not on what the professional military recommends. So we punish troops for that? Only in Liberal world.
The government is pillaging the private sector through taxes, regulation, and spending. The private sector will not be able to pay for all of this. Fine then by all means right now cut federal agencies. So far all you seem to want on this thread is to cut Vets. When someone ask you about other agencies you clam up which makes me thing you are some jealous government employee with an agenda.
How in your twisted mind do you get that somehow the government by funding the military to the tune of $500B+ is somehow at “war” with it?
I've done made that point. But it's not going to stop there by any means. Most of that money the vets nor active service members will not ever see.
The Constitution doesn’t guarantee the NSA (US Military) the right to violate the Constitution?
Again another completely different issue. I think they should have to obtain a warrant for specific target & nothing less. So would most of the vets you are wishing to screw over.
Nevermind.....you’ll never understand if you don’t understand the basic math of our insolvency.
Again the Math says cut the other agencies and again you must be Trolling because when that is posted to you then you ignore it completely. The United States Constitution allows for a standing military. Show me where it allows for most of the other agencies we have today or their powers?
“Yes it is”
No it isn’t
“Again the Math says cut the other agencies”
The math says cut every agency, including the military.
“reduction of military retirement pay”
You are so focused on yourself and your check that you didn’t notice I’m for reducing government spending of all kinds, including unpayable federal, military, state, and municipal pensions. We do it fairly and early and you can preserve more of your interests. If we listen to you the cuts will be far deeper, or maybe even total.
It’s “burn it down” union mentality.
You couldn’t care less because you can’t see beyond your next check.
OK now get back with us when all agencies have been cut. The manpower of the armed forces of the United States has been cut enough. Murray/Ryan's Idiotic Bill will send more needed career troops packing for civilian jobs. No reason to stick around. You seem to have a dislike for those who make the military a career and actually expect retirement it seems.
Look up the End Troop Strengths for 1988 or 89 and look at them now. Many cuts have came from several factors but you want hear the so called enlightened mention it. One is WW2 and Korea war vets are passing on and pensions as such stop. We are also 20 years into a huge force reduction where those who were career military with even 17 plus years were booted out. No benefits. But that isn't enough for you huh? Name me one federal agency that has been cut like this. Name me one federal agency that has been cut at all permanently for that matter. So you think we should start with the military whom the liberals and a certain percentage of the GOP as well loathe huh? You are placing the burden and blame it seems on the wrong ones.
Yes Sir, this morning Murray and Ryan will announce that reduction including their own staff and retirement indeed./sarcasm
“You couldn’t care less because you can’t see beyond your next check.”
I can see beyond my check to notice where Congress is spending the money they are taking out of my check. Not a single cent taken from the trust fund will go to save ANYTHING. It is only being spent elsewhere.
This has NOTHING to do with deficit reduction. If it was about deficit reduction, they would cut lots of things, instead of only military retirement pay.
“including unpayable federal, military, state, and municipal pensions”
Except, as I have pointed out to you many times, the military pension HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID. The military pension fund is in the black, and there is no time in the future where it is expected to go into the red. Yet the only ‘cut’ comes from the only program fully pre-paid. Hmmmm....
“The math says cut every agency, including the military.”
Only if you are a brainless idiot. If you need to cut your household budget 10%, and your household budget includes 15% spent on vacations, do you cut your budget by reducing your food bill, and not your vacation bill?
Do you cut your food bill, and INCREASE your vacation budget, and then pat yourself on the back for cutting your household budget?
In the same situation, do you default on your car payments, while increasing what you spend on vacations?
In the same situation, do you default on your promised car payments so you can give more money to your brother, who will use it to buy booze?
Military operational expenses could be cut and accountability restored by ending logistical needs contracting and increasing troops strengths to assume those duties once again. A private sector employees or a government contractor employee can screw up and go home. A service member best do the job right to start with or else. Contracting isn't saving nothing when the workers must be paid prevailing Union wages which is a fraction of what troops are paid. But you won't hear any elected officials calling for that either.
Unlike RFEngineer, you know what you are talking about...
Heck, we’d have a more secure border in Arizona if you simply threw the Border Patrol out of Arizona and allowed the state to do what the Federal government is prohibiting it from doing right now!
“The figure of $120,000 is for the entire lifetime payout, not per year.”
“Yes, so if it were a 5% reduction that translates to a $2.4M retirement package.”
No, it translates to a $120,000 retirement package.
$120,000 in a lifetime. That’s all, folks. No millions. $120,000 doled out $10,000 per year, or maybe $22,000 per year, but not, not, not, not, not $120,000 per year.
The absolute highest military pay is $12,827.10 per month, and there aren’t many of those—although there are too many. These fortunate few—mostly chair-warming office politicians—get about $76,962.60 per year. At that rate, they would have to collect for 13 years to get even one million dollars. That’s not as likely as it seems, as it takes a while to attain that rank, and it takes a lot out of you.
I knew an HTCM (E9) who had a heart attack and died right in front of the doctor at his retirement physical. I’ve known others who drank themselves to death, or just faded away.
Many retire at the rank of E6, and collect around $1,843. That’s $22,116 per year. At that rate, the warrior would have to collect for 45 years to approach even one million.
Compared to the date upon which the first income tax was signed into law, the dollar is now worth less than two cents. Imagine what it is likely to be worth twenty years from now...or tomorrow, for that matter.
Listen, it’s time for you to pull an Emily Latella and drop the “millions in retirement” thing.
While I was on active duty we were in the yards and my MMCS walked into the Naval hospital at Portsmouth and went into arrest in the lobby. He likely had about 16 years in. He was one of the lucky ones. He not only made it but stayed in till retirement.
I've kept in touch with a hand full of shipmates from my shop on the ship. All but one have had issues related to hearing, feet, back, or other problems. I was lucky my division officer and Chief put all incidents in my record in the division office copy and handed it to me as I got out. AS a result I have needed hearing aids I would otherwise not have. The Medical Officer had me on hearing conservation. I worked on the Chillers.
I was on active duty all four years of the Carter fiasco. Despite the Carter fiasco we always were able to get the darn boilers fired and get underway. Each time a Liberal be it DEM or GOP wants cuts the first place they look is defense. When TSHTF due to maintenance not being done they sacrifice a couple of Captains to the media gods for appeasement. That's like punching your wife because your dog crapped on the floor. Case in point the Kitty Hawk and JFK Captains after 9/11. Everyone knew JFK was being cannibalized during Clinton's term {with a GOP two house majority too boot} and highly under funded as a reserve ship.
Career military especially in deployed units or ships ages a person fast physically and mentally. Chiefs are 30 something in age going on 50 something in looks and likely health. In just four years it got my knees, back, and ears. I did not file on it but later because of more added issues filed under Social Security. Even if I wanted to stay in {I was offered around 15-18K} I would not have health wise made my twenty year mark.
Here's something else. Disability payments in the armed forces unlike Social Security are based on percentages IIRC. A loss of limb for example has a low compensation. Few get 100% and getting disability after you get out is a long drawn out and made almost impossible process. I've read post in forums of guys needing to verify events on board ship that lead to injury. Twenty years later it's all but impossible. Guys are coming back messed up and all the enlightened Murray/Ryan can say is well screw you for getting hurt we have illegals and Global Warming to care for.
We had county sheriffs in Tennessee that went through the extra trouble of getting certified as immigration officers. It does no good when Presidents and congress say come on in illegals plety more jobs and taxpayers money to go around. Personally I think we need troops on the border short term until Locals, and BP can get geared up. The INS or whatever it's called needs to have all top management enabling illegals sent packing.
(A)I’m not a military retiree, and I already told you that. (B) You either don’t know what you’re talking about or you’re jealous of those who are getting their promised benefits. I have no idea which it is. “Bitch” you say? The fact that I cannot work due to my service-connected disabilities makes me a “bitcher” and on par with welfare moochers, is that it? You so-called “conservatives” amaze me at times.
General or admiral?
“The fact that I cannot work due to my service-connected disabilities makes me a “bitcher” and on par with welfare moochers, is that it?”
Not according to people who have their heads out of their butts.
Thanks for showing up and doing your part.
“I was on active duty all four years of the Carter fiasco.”
That was after my first period of active duty. I was trying to get a job during those years.
“Each time a Liberal be it DEM or GOP wants cuts the first place they look is defense.”
FDR’s secretary of war bragged that he had “cut to the bone, then kept cutting.” Guess that’s why it took us from December 1941 until August 1942 to mount any real response (Guadalcanal), and that one was so weak it nearly failed. Would have failed, without men like Archer Vandegrift and Red Mike Edson, and every Marine on Bloody Ridge.
“they sacrifice a couple of Captains to the media gods for appeasement. That’s like punching your wife because your dog crapped on the floor.”
Stupider, even. Your wife hasn’t spent her life aquiring the knowledge, expertise, and force of character needed to command an aircraft carrier.
“Career military especially in deployed units or ships ages a person fast physically and mentally. Chiefs are 30 something in age going on 50 something in looks and likely health. In just four years it got my knees, back, and ears.”
Many men who had a lot of sea time came out of it ready for the knacker. Playing pool is, for me, strenuous exercise.
“OK now get back with us when all agencies have been cut.”
Typical response of a “me first” check receiver.
“the military pension HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID.”
Yeah, yeah....lockbox, blah blah blah.
Your pension is paid out of current year funds. You don’t have to believe it or even understand it - that’s the way it is.
“Only if you are a brainless idiot.”
Ok. The US Congress qualifies, as does the us military bureaucracy.
Cut everything. The Military can make do with only $500B.
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