Posted on 12/13/2013 2:57:59 AM PST by markomalley
A Chinese naval vessel tried to force a U.S. guided missile warship to stop in international waters recently, causing a tense military standoff in the latest case of Chinese maritime harassment, according to defense officials.
The guided missile cruiser USS Cowpens, which recently took part in disaster relief operations in the Philippines, was confronted by Chinese warships in the South China Sea near Beijing’s new aircraft carrier Liaoning, according to officials familiar with the incident.
“On December 5th, while lawfully operating in international waters in the South China Sea, USS Cowpens and a PLA Navy vessel had an encounter that required maneuvering to avoid a collision,” a Navy official said.
“This incident underscores the need to ensure the highest standards of professional seamanship, including communications between vessels, to mitigate the risk of an unintended incident or mishap.”
A State Department official said the U.S. government issued protests to China in both Washington and Beijing in both diplomatic and military channels.
The Cowpens was conducting surveillance of the Liaoning at the time. The carrier had recently sailed from the port of Qingdao on the northern Chinese coast into the South China Sea.
According to the officials, the run-in began after a Chinese navy vessel sent a hailing warning and ordered the Cowpens to stop. The cruiser continued on its course and refused the order because it was operating in international waters.
Then a Chinese tank landing ship sailed in front of the Cowpens and stopped, forcing the Cowpens to abruptly change course in what the officials said was a dangerous maneuver.
According to the officials, the Cowpens was conducting a routine operation done to exercise its freedom of navigation near the Chinese carrier when the incident occurred about a week ago.
The encounter was the type of incident that senior Pentagon officials recently warned could take place as a result of heightened tensions in the region over China’s declaration of an air defense identification zone (ADIZ) in the East China Sea.
Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recently called China’s new air defense zone destabilizing and said it increased the risk of a military “miscalculation.”
China’s military forces in recent days have dispatched Su-30 and J-11 fighter jets, as well as KJ-2000 airborne warning and control aircraft, to the zone to monitor the airspace that is used frequently by U.S. and Japanese military surveillance aircraft.
The United States has said it does not recognize China’s ADIZ, as has Japan’s government.
Two U.S. B-52 bombers flew through the air zone last month but were not shadowed by Chinese interceptor jets.
Chinese naval and air forces also have been pressing Japan in the East China Sea over Tokyo’s purchase a year ago of several uninhabited Senkaku Islands located north of Taiwan and south of Okinawa.
China is claiming the islands, which it calls the Diaoyu. They are believed to contain large undersea reserves of natural gas and oil.
The Liaoning, China’s first carrier that was refitted from an old Soviet carrier, and four warships recently conducted their first training maneuvers in the South China Sea. The carrier recently docked at the Chinese naval port of Hainan on the South China Sea.
Defense officials have said China’s imposition of the ADIZ is aimed primarily at curbing surveillance flights in the zone, which China’s military regards as a threat to its military secrets.
The U.S. military conducts surveillance flights with EP-3 aircraft and long-range RQ-4 Global Hawk drones.
In addition to the Liaoning, Chinese warships in the flotilla include two missile destroyers, the Shenyang and the Shijiazhuang, and two missile frigates, the Yantai and the Weifang.
Rick Fisher, a China military affairs expert, said it is likely that the Chinese deliberately staged the incident as part of a strategy of pressuring the United States.
“They can afford to lose an LST [landing ship] as they have about 27 of them, but they are also usually armed with one or more twin 37 millimeter cannons, which at close range could heavily damage a lightly armored U.S. Navy destroyer,” said Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center.
Most Chinese Navy large combat ships would be out-ranged by the 127-millimeter guns deployed on U.S. cruisers, except China’s Russian-made Sovremenny-class ships and Beijing’s new Type 052D destroyers that are armed with 130-millimeter guns.
The encounter appears to be part of a pattern of Chinese political signaling that it will not accept the presence of American military power in its East Asian theater of influence, Fisher said.
“China has spent the last 20 years building up its Navy and now feels that it can use it to obtain its political objectives,” he said.
Fisher said that since early 2012 China has gone on the offensive in both the South China and East China Seas.
“In this early stage of using its newly acquired naval power, China is posturing and bullying, but China is also looking for a fight, a battle that will cow the Americans, the Japanese, and the Filipinos,” he said.
To maintain stability in the face of Chinese military assertiveness, Fisher said the United States and Japan should seek an armed peace in the region by heavily fortifying the Senkaku Islands and the rest of the island chain they are part of.
“The U.S. and Japan should also step up their rearmament of the Philippines,” Fisher said.
The Cowpens incident is the most recent example of Chinese naval aggressiveness toward U.S. ships.
The U.S. intelligence-gathering ship, USNS Impeccable, came under Chinese naval harassment from a China Maritime Surveillance ship, part of Beijing’s quasi-military maritime patrol craft, in June.
During that incident, the Chinese ship warned the Navy ship it was operating illegally despite sailing in international waters. The Chinese demanded that the ship first obtain permission before sailing in the area that was more than 100 miles from China’s coast.
The U.S. military has been stepping up surveillance of China’s naval forces, including the growing submarine fleet, as part of the U.S. policy of rebalancing forces to the Pacific.
The Impeccable was harassed in March 2009 by five Chinese ships that followed it and sprayed it with water hoses in an effort to thwart its operations.
A second spy ship, the USNS Victorious, also came under Chinese maritime harassment several years ago.
Adm. Samuel Locklear, when asked last summer about increased Chinese naval activities near Guam and Hawaii in retaliation for U.S. ship-based spying on China, said the dispute involves different interpretations of controlled waters.
Locklear said in a meeting with reporters in July, “We believe the U.S. position is that those activities are less constrained than what the Chinese believe.”
China is seeking to control large areas of international waters—claiming they are part of its United Nations-defined economic exclusion zone—that Locklear said cover “most of the major sea lines of communication” near China and are needed to remain free for trade and shipping.
Locklear, who is known for his conciliatory views toward the Chinese military, sought to play down recent disputes. When asked if the Chinese activities were troubling, he said: “I would say it’s not provocative certainly. I’d say that in the Asia-Pacific, in the areas that are closer to the Chinese homeland, that we have been able to conduct operations around each other in a very professional and increasingly professional manner.”
The Pentagon and U.S. Pacific Command have sought to develop closer ties to the Chinese military as part of the Obama administration’s Asia pivot policies.
However, China’s military has shown limited interest in closer ties.
China’s state-controlled news media regularly report that the United States is seeking to defeat China by encircling the country with enemies while promoting dissidents within who seek the ouster of the communist regime.
The Obama administration has denied it is seeking to “contain” China and has insisted it wants continued close economic and diplomatic relations.
President Barack Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed to seek a new type of major power relationship during a summit in California earlier this year. However, the exact nature of the new relationship remains unclear.
Um, how many Americans died at the hands of the Chinese before trade relations in 1972 and how many after?
Well I agree on the welfare state…that actually works to my argument, not yours….because my argument is that if we would stop liberalism in this country, our economy would be so damned strong that nothing else owuld matter, including China.
But I simply disagree that free trade suppresses wages….oh, it does in some instances, but other opportunities are opened up. In a way, high tariffs is like trying to force the buggy whip business to stay profitable in a world where it simply cannot.
There is a world wide economy. It helps those who recognize it, but it hurts those who cling to something that is obsolete. Change is dyamic, but liberty is always the best way to handle it…...
Now comes my neighbor and he’s selling his lawnmower. It is a good price and he takes $25 American for it. That’s free trade. Who is richer or more powerful or anything else doesn’t matter. That trade is completed. He got what he wanted and I got what I wanted.
Does "liberty" extend to selling heroin, crack cocaine, etc to anyone who will buy them? Is that free trade? Surely you don't advocate some reversion back to a Hobbesian state of nature where government is non-existent? Government does have a role in trade, even free trade.
You’re confusing the economic prosperity of moving away from low level manufacturing to higher level manufacturing and invention.
I never mentioned manufacturing or moving from one level to another?
Would you rather be making the widget or getting all the royalties from it?
Government certainly favors the latter. It produces nothing but gets the "royalties" aka taxes from it.
We don’t farm anymore either and that’s a sign of prosperity. At the turn of the last century 40% of employment was on farms now it’s down to 3% and no one is starving. That’s an improvement. Do you see it now?
You must be confusing me with someone else on this thread. I am not against technological improvements that increase productivity and reduces labor costs.
BTW, I have visited the PRC and toured some of their industrial parks that have factories of US based companies. They have top of the line technology, the latest in automation, and a well educated labor force that works for a fraction of US workers. It is very difficult to compete under such circumstances.
But I will say this…I’ve enjoyed our chat….and glad you haven’t accused me of being some kind of Commie spy or whatever…..at least our disagreement is one of opinion and economic theory…..and we disagree over what is best for more Americans….not over who is anti American…..
Do you want to be more specific? What don't I understand about free markets?
Agreed. I am not talking about the people, but their current government.
As I have indicated previously, I have no problem with free trade as long as it is based on reciprocity. Both parties must allow equal access to their markets.
The EU thru various agreements does allow the free movement of labor between member countries. It is one of the reasons that the EU is under attack and possibly be dissolved.
As for Apple, that company greatly improves the lives of those who work there in China, while improving the lives of their customers world wide. They did not create the awful conditions in China, and cannot be held responsible for them…..their situation is as win win…..and again, the only “loser” is potential US jobs, but that’s due to US policies.
Do you really believe that the US can attract back US companies from China, India, and many other Third World countries by just changing some policies? IMO our problems are much deeper than that and there are policies that cannot be changed because they violate our value system.
It is an imperfect world, and freer trade is better for more people than less free trade. But nothing is utopia, and things only get worse when we try to find utopia.
Platitudes are great, but we have to plow the fields with the oxen God gave us. What do we do about currency manipulation that both the Chinese and Germans use to sell their exports? How long do we allow ourselves to be fleeced by bad trade agreements?
Free trade is amoral. As a Christian I wouldn’t trade in those things. Government has a clear role in trade: keep the lanes of trade open, enforce laws against fraud, and provide a justice system with teeth.
My point about manufacturing was to contrast it with the move away from farming into manufacturing. People at the time expected starvation, but that didn’t happen. US manufacturing is alive and very, very well. It just employs fewer workers because of technological innovation and a move toward thinking rather than labor.
You say that a good idea produces nothing, but history and reality say otherwise. The person who is able to bring the house plan builds nothing. He cut no tree, nailed no wood, and installed no item in the home, but his idea and coordinating thoughts brought it all together. Ideas do produce something. Ideas are what America is known for, not farming or manufacturing. Those are simply the result of thinking combined with liberty.
Your point about government bias is well taken. I don’t accept any form of crony capitalism. The General Welfare is exactly that - general. The minute government is aware of who will benefit from a law is the moment corruption begins. Government managed economies, like Chinas, are no good.
My point exactly. Don’t compete where you don’t have an advantage. Compete and win where you do - entrepreneurialism, middle management and creativity are the hallmarks of American economic liberty.
Another Commie lover chimes in.
Very interesting chat, and we do have some areas of agreement….but I would make the following distinctions:
First, I don’t think reciprocity is necessarily do able because the customer bases of countries are so different. Reciprocity may be impossible to determine, which allows for bureaucratic monkey business.
Second, I reject your description of my prescrption as just changing “a few policies.” No, our entire structural liberalism would have to be removed.
Third, i reject the notion that jobs, the “same” jobs, need to come back…surely some will, but some are simply obsolete to our workforce today.
Fourth, the American laboroer, in the lower tiers, is simply not a good workforce. They lie, cheat, steal and file Workers comp claims and use a job as a form of welfare….this speaks to the vast problems we have in society that businesses must react to, but did not cause. This is not good for America….but I don’t blame the Chinese for this….and we can’t blame anyone for taking advantage of our self inflicted wounds….
Which brings me to fifth: this is not a zero sum game. If we got our house in order, nothing else would matter…and it wouldn’t be a bad thing for anyone…our economy would be the engine that helps the entire world. I reject that we “necessarily compete” with other countries. Economic growth is not zero sum, altho on some small levels, there is direct competition.
Great chat!
Probably frozen for the ride over processed and then refrozen for the ride back.
Doesn’t sound real appetizing.
What happens to the jobs of people who process them here.
Is it so much more expensive to pay a person here to process the chicken than to ship them to China, process them and send them back? Probably processed by Chinese prisoners.
I swear I do not understand some of the things we allow to happen. You know that the Chinese bought Smithfield the company that supplies pork to American tables. Now they process our chicken.
Expect the price of both to go up.
If we go to war we wont even be able to get a ham sandwich.
And if pigs had wings, they could fly. We are not getting rid of the welfare state anytime soon. In fact, we have been adding to it with the Prescription Drug Program (Bush) and Obamacare. We are heading in the wrong direction with unfunded liabilities from entitlements totaling over $90 trillion. Does the GOP advocate eliminating Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, the biggest drivers of our debt? We can't even make simple reforms.
But I simply disagree that free trade suppresses wages….oh, it does in some instances, but other opportunities are opened up. In a way, high tariffs is like trying to force the buggy whip business to stay profitable in a world where it simply cannot.
We have more free trade than before, but US wages have been declining in real terms since 1969. We have the lowest labor participation rates in more than four decades. We are creating a permanent underclass populated mostly by blacks and Hispanics. Education is the passport to success in this society, which is why these groups will largely be at the bottom of the economic ladder. This is a festering problem that will only get worse since those two groups are growing in numbers. By 2019 half of the children 18 and under will be minorities as classified by the USG.
Our solution to a less educated workforce is to bring in more immigrants who will take more jobs and depress wages. Why aren't we doing more to educate our own people to fill the jobs we need? Business could care less about the long term consequences of the social and political impact of changing the demographics of this country in a very short period of time. And immigrants and minorities vote more than two to one for the Dems who are the party of Big Government and the welfare state.
There is a world wide economy. It helps those who recognize it, but it hurts those who cling to something that is obsolete. Change is dyamic, but liberty is always the best way to handle it…...
America is one of the top countries in the world when it comes to free trade. Here is Heritage's 2013 world rankings of countries in terms of their index of economic freedom. The US is #10 and China is #136. I would note that Hong Kong is #1 and Macau #26.
What a great American you are! So full of faith in the USA!
Paint with a broad brush much? Freepers this is what passes for a Free Traitor. Really despicable people these Free Traitors....
So you would permit the drug trade? I assume that you would support government prohibitions on the export of national security related technology or do you?
I have not ascribed morality to free trade, but free trade can be used as a carrot or stick against countries that repress their people or pose a threat to the national security of this country. It can also be an inducement to change national behavior.
You say that a good idea produces nothing,
Can you please cite anything I have posted that remotely indicates that assertion?
Your point about government bias is well taken. I don’t accept any form of crony capitalism. The General Welfare is exactly that - general. The minute government is aware of who will benefit from a law is the moment corruption begins. Government managed economies, like Chinas, are no good.
The US economy is becoming increasingly a managed economy as government controls more and more of the resources. Obamacare is just the latest manifestation, i.e., a takeover of one-sixth of the economy.
The gated community crowd doesn’t worry about the untermensch.
I work my butt off, don’t lie or cheat and have never filed a workers comp claim.
I’m an American.
Me too but that's not what C. Edmund Wright thinks....
By reciprocity, I mean equal access and treatment by the host government. I realize that we cannot have equal treatment in terms of specific products, but we should have the same rules applied to us re foreign investment that we accord a country here for example.
Second, I reject your description of my prescrption as just changing “a few policies.” No, our entire structural liberalism would have to be removed.
I just think that is a non-starter. In fact, we are going headlong in the opposite direction.
Third, i reject the notion that jobs, the “same” jobs, need to come back…surely some will, but some are simply obsolete to our workforce today.
I agree with that, but it won't be a matter of being obsolete but cheaper to do overseas. China and India are producing huge numbers of educated people. For example, we can transmit X-rays, MRIs, etc to India for reading and analysis. Call centers are just the tip of the iceberg allowing people to work for US companies and vice-versa regardless of their physical location. Having a job may no longer be the norm and competition will increase. The numbers of educated (college graduates) Americans holding low skilled jobs is increasing significantly and it may not just be a product of the Great Recession.
Fourth, the American laboroer, in the lower tiers, is simply not a good workforce. They lie, cheat, steal and file Workers comp claims and use a job as a form of welfare….this speaks to the vast problems we have in society that businesses must react to, but did not cause. This is not good for America….but I don’t blame the Chinese for this….and we can’t blame anyone for taking advantage of our self inflicted wounds….
I am not blaming the Chinese or any other country for the condition of our workforce. I blame our government, our educational system and to a lesser extent, business for not equipping our people with the skills they need to be competitive in the global economy. Germany uses the apprenticeship program to good effect.
As this permanent underclass continues to grow, it will place a strain on the economy and the welfare state far beyond what we see now. It will also be fertile ground for violence and alienation from the society. We will take on the profile of a Third World country with a diminished middle class and the affluent living in gated communities with their own private security forces. It is already happening to a certain extent now. Unless we do something to change the current course of events, our future is under a cloud.
Which brings me to fifth: this is not a zero sum game. If we got our house in order, nothing else would matter…and it wouldn’t be a bad thing for anyone…our economy would be the engine that helps the entire world. I reject that we “necessarily compete” with other countries. Economic growth is not zero sum, altho on some small levels, there is direct competition.
A big if in terms of getting our house in order. And we are competing with other countries when it comes to exports and sales. Our domestic market is far bigger than the export market and should be our number one concern. Strangely, China, India, and Brazil (plus other developing economies) are now being seen as the vehicle to get us out of the current economic doldrums. We are being seen less and less as the engine of the world's economy.
Thanks for the interchange of ideas. I am not against free trade. I just want to make sure that our policies ensure that we get a good deal that benefits us. Take care.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.