The ultimate work out flight. Pedal faster or die.
Posted on 11/14/2013 8:45:44 AM PST by Armen Hareyan
Our engineering background is limited. Maybe our readers could tell us if Tesla's founder's idea of a supersonic airliner (that takes off vertically and lands vertically just for added difficulty) is technically possible.
Elon Musk has more ideas about transportation using electricity. In a recent interview, which seemed more like an outlined discussion than a true inquisition, the rock star of automotive manufacturing revealed two more ideas that involve using electricity to move people. The first is not that hard to envision. A pickup truck powered by electricity. We will address that in another story. The second, is a real head scratcher for those with any engineering background. It is a supersonic, vertical take of airplane – powered of course by electricity.
Before we begin, check our yesterday's story if you are not current on Tesla's stock drop, Q3 loss, and fires in 3 Model S cars. The link as the full interview as well as a summary of this week's big Tesla news.
Let’s look at his airplane idea proposed in an interview with the New York Time Deal Book this week. The interview turned towards air travel, which leads us to believe that the questions were submitted in advance. In any case, the interviewer spoke about Musk’s opinion of the 787 battery fires and from there segued into what planes Musk liked and why. It turns out Elon likes the 747 calling it fast and aerodynamically efficient. Saying “I do think there is an interesting opportunity to create a supersonic, electric, vertical take-off and landing jet. I think that would be really great.” Expanding on where this idea came from Musk said “Well the Concord was canceled. I was like, well that’s sad. Now there’s no supersonic transport. And is the future getting worse? It bothers me when the future is getting worse, so that is where the supersonic plane thing came from.”
Having studied mechanical engineering, and taken some limited courses in aerodynamics and thermodynamics at the undergraduate level, this sounds just kooky to me. In order to move an airframe through the air past the sound barrier it needs to create a huge push in the opposite direction via the engines. Using only electricity, rather than expanding gases, it is hard to envision accelerating turbine blades to the point that they are well past supersonic and compressing air in a way it would then be able to move a huge structure. Maybe electricity could somehow be used to convert liquid phase water to the superheated gas phase and thus push the plane past supersonic. Sort of an inverse steam generator. Interestingly, Musk said in the same interview he thinks rockets (as in space travel rockets) would never be electric, and thinks steam power used in the past is quaint. If we have readers who can tell us how an electric plane might work, please weigh in below. Let’s set aside the energy density issue related to the batteries for now.
Musk is currently the big thinker in the room, if you consider the world the room. Had he not already created a new currency, a new type of luxury car, and also a spaceship we would laugh at this idea. However, we are learning to take his ideas more seriously as time goes on. What do you think of a supersonic electric “jet” plane? Lark, or possible workable idea?
Still image courtesy of Youtube.com and AviationExplorer
NO
Given the current state of battery technology, it is impossible. Without batteries for power, it would have to be powered by some yet-to-be-invented power source.
The ultimate work out flight. Pedal faster or die.
And all these new batteries needed would need to be mined, produced, and disposed of. How does that “help” the environment?
“Where is the electricity coming from?”
From three possible sources:
1. A really long extension cord.
2. A magic battery.
3. A fuel cell orders of magnitude better than now exist.
Look, LOOK!
A Flying Unicorn!
I came across an article in a Russian Aerospace mag some years ago, where they were also looking at this concept. I think the article made the additional claim that there were some stealth characteristics to the design.
I love Unicorns!
Think of it as an airplane w/o an gas tanks. The benefits of not transporting the weight of an energy reserve would be huge!
Using energy to super heat the moisture of air into thrust or spinning many smaller turbines at high rpm might do it.
My battery RC aircraft outperform the gas planes hands down.
Yes, it is possible...someday!
Pixie dust, of course!
“Control tower... we have a fire on board”
Are gas airplane engines that bad?
I mean we’re talking 9:1 energy density difference.
Awesome! Aim a 400 Megawatt death ray at a tin can full of passengers. What could go wrong?
...Some would say he is just part of a new wave of inventors, envelope-edge pushers, risk takers...
In some ways he reminds me of Bill Lear who invented the car radio, airplane radio-compass and autopilot, and the eight-track tape player. His most famous invention being the Learjet, which became the world's first supplier of corporate jets. Yet for every brilliant, world changing idea he developed, he'd go haring off on some new interest which would consume his personal fortune along with any investors he could attract. His last project being steam powered Buses (don't see any of them around either!).
Until someone figures out how to store electricity w/out a battery (super cool the electrons and store them in a thermos bottle? call it a "juice jug") and develops a way to produce thrust without conventional motors (magnetic levitation, linear accelerators, plasma thrusters?), electric airplanes are the stuff of science fiction. The potential thrust to drag ratio is enough to keep them grounded. As for VTOL capability you might as well ask for "anti-gravity". I'd hate to guess how you could even start on something like that (lighter than air is a good approximation but unlikely to hit MACH speeds!)
Regards,
GtG
PS Bill Lear was presented with a screw driver with the blade mounted to the handle using ball bearings. The "tool" was presented to Mr Lear by his chief engineer who told him "Now you can screw around with the design without destroying it!"
PPS Nickola Tesla was a man so far ahead of his time as to be freightening. It may be said that he "invented" the world we live in.
"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality." Nikola Tesla
"Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine." Nikola Tesla
I suppose you could dry your cat in the microwave too, but I expect the Mr. Pusskins might object.
Regards,
GtG
PS I always thought that a couple acres of photovoltaic cells with a microwave downlink in high orbit would make a nice clean energy resource (and a damn fine death ray if needed).
G
Perhaps, but not much longer.
http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/11/koreans-say-graphene-supercapacitors.html
It'd start to go really fast?
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