Posted on 10/25/2013 9:06:34 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
U.S. and Afghan politicians are in the middle of a heated debate over whether a small American and NATO force will remain in Afghanistan at the end of next year.
But what's a political and strategic question at the negotiating table is an emotional question at bases around Afghanistan, where soldiers watch the discussions with one eye on their sacrifices over the past 12 years and the other on the American withdrawal from Vietnam four decades ago.
In short, they don't want to go home without the win.
After repeated combat tours, an untold number of divorces and nearly 2,300 U.S. dead, American servicemen want their losses in Afghanistan to have been worth it. For many of them, that means keeping a residual force here to help the Afghans fend off a resurgent Taliban.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
pretty much nailed it.
Well there assbag, Ive been over in the sandbox. So I’ll say what I damned well want. And now I’ll say it again. Its childish thinking to stay longer and kill and maim more of our people, just so the earlier deaths have “meaning”.
It’s delusional to think we will ever create a nation state run by the Afghans. If we stay three decades it’ll be the same because the people there are incapable of escaping the most virulent form of islam.
Next there is no military victory to win, and no enlightened local government will arise.
So yeah, staying is pointless. And staying in a futile effort cannot attach meaning to the earlier deaths. The only meaning it gets is that they were our best, and they were betrayed by a government that is afraid to insult the enemy.
Well there assbag, Ive been over in the sandbox. So I’ll say what I damned well want. And now I’ll say it again. Its childish thinking to stay longer and kill and maim more of our people, just so the earlier deaths have “meaning”.
It’s delusional to think we will ever create a nation state run by the Afghans. If we stay three decades it’ll be the same because the people there are incapable of escaping the most virulent form of islam.
Next there is no military victory to win, and no enlightened local government will arise.
So yeah, staying is pointless. And staying in a futile effort cannot attach meaning to the earlier deaths. The only meaning it gets is that they were our best, and they were betrayed by a government that is afraid to insult the enemy.
So what constitutes a win?
Get the troops out of there and nuke the poppy fields.
Your childish insult aside, please tell me two things.
How will staying create an Afghan nation that is not an Islamic hotbed. Karzai is epically corrupt, and is already diplomatically cozy with Pakistan and the Taliban.
His soldiers murder ours as often as we give them the chance.
Because it’s a fact we will not be nuking the hills, or outdoing the USSR in ruthlessness. And its a fact that the Afghans are incapable of modern values.
Next, please tell me about your time as a grunt.
Ahhhh,,, the poppy fields. “Meaning” was lost when orders forbade damaging the crop. At that point, every grunt walking past the heroin crop headed for our streets was told everything they needed to know about “meaning”. And also about,,,, hypocrisy.
The unconditional surrender of Barack Hussein Ubama.
Whatever you say. Jerkoff.
If there was actually a chance of a win for them, I’d say go for it. But our government, republicans and rats alike, has made it pretty clear they want to have their cake and eat it to (ie, they don’t want to win, but they don’t want to lose either), which will only result in more US deaths.
If our government is going to continue to hold our troops back while they’re over there, then it’s time to bring them home.
Blood has been spilled for at least 300 years because of those damned poppy fields.
“In short, they don’t want to go home without the win.”
Well that’s all fine and good...But one thing people are missing here is the fact that there is a liberal/socialist administration/government that doesn’t want that to happen...
And leaving a “residual” force in place, rotating servicemembers in and out of that zone will only create an endless supply of bodies coming home, for what???
If the civilian authority does not want to “win”, what the military wants is a moot point...What the families who have lost loved ones want is especially secondary to the political agenda that this particular crop of feckless wonders in D.C. desire...
They talk a good talk, but their walk leaves a lot to be desired...Very few politicians care about doing what is right, in the bigger scheme of things...There is NO virtue to speak of in their ranks as well...
So what are we left with??? Not much to do but try to keep the energy up for at least one more year...
Lots of “things” hinge upon whether or not we keep the politically apathetic ready to go next year...I do not believe it will happen, too many people lose interest too quickly, and no one seems to be able to keep the base energized for more than a gnat’s lifetime...
Fighting the democrats is one thing, having to deal with the quisling feckless wonders in the GOPe is a new matter altogether...Something most are not prepared to sift through to keep them out of the offices they currently occupy...
Just think, we have to deal with the ObamaCare TAX, a new push from both sides for immigration reform (AMNESTY), and a debt ceiling bust at the first of the year which they will all be able to kick down the road easier this next time...Thanks to those very same feckless republicans that need to be replaced at the earliest convienience...
I do not believe the voting public can remain properly engaged till November 2014...
I would love to be proven wrong...
Funnym looking at what you two have been going at for the last few posts, and I hate to say this, but the conflict was neve engaged, or planned for any type of “win’ in the conventional sense...
Politically though it ws believed from the start that we could get a win if the bad guys were beaten back SO much that a “government” (like ours) could be inserted to run that country like ours...So we could pull out and tell others about how well we did iin this crisis...
Before 9/11 Afghanistan was a flea infested armpit...It still is...If the Brits couldn’t get it done, or maintain it, and the Russians sure as hell got their asses handed to them couldn’t get it done...Not that their intentions were in the best interests of anyone but the Russians...
What made anyone here believe we (America) could do it???
We went in there with the intent to destroy the terrorists and make as sure aws we possibly could, to make Afghanistan as unpleasant a place to collude, support or finance terrorist activity around the entire world...It should have never been assumed that we;d totally irradicate terrorism from its confines, but we could assume we could make it dificult to train and support such operations...And we somewhat did that...
But trying to sandwich that with a political nation building BS that we had to continue to press the origianl issue really kept us from accomplishing that ONE goal...Andthe sustaining operations since then have produced nothing but bodies coming back, and a corrupt and entrenched and ungrateful leadership caste running their show...Thanks to the liberal insertion of their agenda to fund those continued operations...
Lancey is correct from a certain point of view, and Desert, your boots on the ground perspective is duly noted, and you are right as well from your perspective...
The interesting thing is this...
If I could replace the fact that my nephew is due to rotate back over there in March of next year...I would do so in a heartbeat, because I think I know what it will take to get that “win”...
And it is not a political solution, nor is it a military one at this time...
The fight is NOT over there...
It is right here...
Think about it...
I’m willing to sacrifice myself (reluctantly, but I would like to take out a few gomers myself before that happens ;-)), but are there people here domestically that have the political courage to correct the feckless nature of our elected caste of knuckleheads who DO NOT understand what sacrifice means...
Until they do, we will never be allowed to “win” anything...Ever...
That’s what the brave soliders in Vietnam said. They didn’t want the losses to go for nothing.
Too bad the leaders don’t have the same sense of honor
They understand that the Afghans are just as dangerous as the stated enemy, yet they want to continue. They understand that the US, especially the WH, will not allow them to win the war. Yet, a good number of them care more about honor and doing the job. Evidently I may have insulted a "grunt" who feels differently. Said "grunt" seems to think he speaks for the whole of American Warriors and nay sayed them.
Everyone is aware of the situation/logistics, but the story was about those who could give a damn about the crap that gets in the way and who want to 'pursue the enemy to the gates of hell". You can be comfortable taking that away from them and I'll feel comfortable for hurting your feelings.
They have an opportunity to join civilization by exploiting their mineral wealth. A few mining colleges would probably do a lot of good.
Lithium is one of the key elements available there, but also rare earth elements. Of course their major source right now is Communist China, so expect continued support for the Taliban to prevent this.
Perhaps there can be a win-win. Captured Taliban get to work as slave laborers in the lithium salt mines!
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