Posted on 10/08/2013 6:23:05 AM PDT by Red Badger
Researchers at a US lab have passed a crucial milestone on the way to their ultimate goal of achieving self-sustaining nuclear fusion.
Harnessing fusion - the process that powers the Sun - could provide an unlimited and cheap source of energy.
But to be viable, fusion power plants would have to produce more energy than they consume, which has proven elusive.
Now, a breakthrough by scientists at the National Ignition Facility (NIF) could boost hopes of scaling up fusion.
NIF, based at Livermore in California, uses 192 beams from the world's most powerful laser to heat and compress a small pellet of hydrogen fuel to the point where nuclear fusion reactions take place.
The BBC understands that during an experiment in late September, the amount of energy released through the fusion reaction exceeded the amount of energy being absorbed by the fuel - the first time this had been achieved at any fusion facility in the world.
This is a step short of the lab's stated goal of "ignition", where nuclear fusion generates as much energy as the lasers supply. This is because known "inefficiencies" in different parts of the system mean not all the energy supplied through the laser is delivered to the fuel.
But the latest achievement has been described as the single most meaningful step for fusion in recent years, and demonstrates NIF is well on its way towards the coveted target of ignition and self-sustaining fusion.
For half a century, researchers have strived for controlled nuclear fusion and been disappointed. It was hoped that NIF would provide the breakthrough fusion research needed.
In 2009, NIF officials announced an aim to demonstrate nuclear fusion producing net energy by 30 September 2012. But unexpected technical problems ensured the deadline came and went;
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...
The limitations/problems of biofuels and solar are well known, and have been for decades. They are known physics/chemistry/biology.
This is NOT true of LENR, which is wholly new science, the breadth and depth of which is completely unknown. The physics boys are shooting themselves in both feet, as understanding of this very strange quantum mechanical phenomenon may well become "the next big physics". LENR is on a par with the original discovery of radioactivity, and about on the same level as when Rutherford got started.
"With success far over the horizon (amidst the failures) research money for cold fusion is being measured out sparingly. Rightly so even with a DOE recommendation (note: “recommendation” that is not the same as a grant, etc.) for modest funding."
At the time of the recommendations, nobody had (or has today) a clue as to how "far over the horizon" success or failure might be. The whole point of the DOE recommendation was to find that out. Yet even that small funding was denied. Why??
"You say companies are now investing....What companies? How much are they investing? And just what are they investing in?"
For that information, I recommend you to Google and some homework. At minimum, Rossi, Defkalion, Brillouin, are known and frequently mentioned. There are probably half a dozen more that I have noted in wide reading on the subject. Piantelli has backers, I think George Miley has gotten some private funding, and the Israeli company that recently moved their research effort to the US. And obviously, they are investing in research.
"If Lenr had received the same level of funding as solar power and windmills it would be just as successful."
Sorry, but there is no way you can know that. To say so is simply stupid.
Of course solar and biofuels are well known physics and still are with few exceptions economically impractical.
But here is Lenr, not understood at all, and it’s going to be the “next big thing”? And that “horizon” keeps retreating as it’s approached. But patents are issued and papers written and money spent on all those replications.
“If the normal path of good science had been followed instead of the anti-LENR political and economic warfare waged by physicists against it, we would very likely have working power units by now.”
“Sorry, but there is no way you can know that. To say so is simply stupid.”
It certainly WILL be the "next big thing" in physics, once this generation of skeptopaths dies off. These are totally new and not understood quantum mechanically driven phenomena. Radioactivity wasn't understood when Marie Curie found out that radium generated heat with no energy input, and look where THAT has taken physics.
Whether it will be the "next big thing" in energy generation remains to be seen..but current indications are that it certainly has that possiblility.
"And that “horizon” keeps retreating as it’s approached.
Really??? What gives you that idea?? Other than your own prejudices. It looks to me like things are developing more quickly than ever, and that the number of involved researchers is increasing, despite the best efforts on the part of the skeptopaths to prevent that.
But that "is" certainly true of "hot fusion", which you obviously dearly love, not being able (or willing) to say anthing negative about it.
"But patents are issued and papers written and money spent on all those replications."
Patents have only been issued in the last year or so, and virtually all of the research efforts thus far have been done on a shoestring with limited means and equipment, by people that were either "self-financing", had discretionary grant funding (emeritus professor sorts), or were able to "midnight engineer" it without official sanction.
“If the normal path of good science had been followed instead of the anti-LENR political and economic warfare waged by physicists against it, we would very likely have working power units by now.”
Note the words "very likely" in that sentence. No such qualifers were present in your comments.
If then Lenr is moving right along to a virtually inevitable practicality, its funding level must be about right.
More interesting than the possible future of whatever Lenr is in reality is the undertone of personal insult evidenced by words like ‘stupid, prejudice, skeptopath, mind reading about “love” of something or other.
Do you take it as a personal slight when others don’t share your enthusiastic support of Lenr or even think it fraud?
With each post you admit you’re anti-LENR. Your attitude exposes an anti-science perspective.
Do you take it as a personal slight when others don’t share your enthusiastic support of Lenr or even think it fraud?
***Do you take it as a personal slight when FReepers call you a liar, a fraud?
Take it up with the admin mod. He’s the one who posted the thread.
If you take zero to another power, you still have zero. That’s what you contribute.
And that “horizon” keeps retreating as it’s approached.
***By your own reckoning, it retreats 2 years at a time. By Physicists own reckoning, Hot Fusion water heaters retreat 50 years at a time. Since cold fusion is 100,000 more cost effective than hot fusion, it deserves the lion’s share of fed funding, rather than the reverse.
“Do you take it as a personal slight when FReepers call you a liar, a fraud?”
Naw, I don’t take either of your comments in a personal way even when I point out the unreasonableness of them.
Not the point. The point is the time lost due to the obfuscation by "political science". And delay in advancing the science of understanding the phenomenon. And the damage done to the integrity of the whole field of science, the damage to the science of physics, and the irreparable damage done to those who "did" dare to buck the obfuscators.
"More interesting than the possible future of whatever Lenr is in reality is the undertone of personal insult evidenced by words like ‘stupid, prejudice, skeptopath, mind reading about “love” of something or other.
LOL. Dude, you must be totally blind and deaf. Kevmo and I have been called a whole lot worse than any of those on these threads. By you, among others.
"Do you take it as a personal slight when others don’t share your enthusiastic support of Lenr or even think it fraud?
Personal slight??? No. I dislike lies and liars. And say so. And with the current state of knowledge about LENR, anybody who says "it's a fraud" is either a liar or completely un-informed. Now, it's no sin to lack knowledge, but those who time after time after time continue to shout "it's a fraud" and absolutely refuse to examine the existing evidence on the subject deserve any name that fits.
Then it’s obvious, once again, that you do not value rationality. Your irrational hatred of LENR blinds you to simple reason.
Hatred of Lenr? By no means! You fellas provide some real distraction from the more serious side of life.
Dodgin' and weavin', shuckin' and jivin'.
Why not actually address the serious issues involved? Or do you enjoy seeing much of the human race suffering poverty and disease that can be eliminated by a high-tech, high-energy revolution that LENR promises??
But you're apparently fine with continuing to pour billions of dollars into "hot fusion" while simultaneously advocating no additional funding of "cold fusion" research.
What I advocate or don't has no effect on the funding and progress of either nor do your unwarranted fulminations and enthusiasms.
Meanwhile the suffering of world will have to wait for the Lenr gizmos.
Methinks the experimental data is a bit more than "promises".
"What I advocate or don't has no effect on the funding and progress of either nor do your unwarranted fulminations and enthusiasms.
So why are you on every LENR thread with totally negative comments??? What is your point/purpose??
"Meanwhile the suffering of world will have to wait for the Lenr gizmos."
Unfortunately true. Aided and abetted by dishonest scientists. Of course, you obviously don't think that dishonesty is a problem.
So why are you on every LENR thread with totally negative comments??? What is your point/purpose??
***She is a bandwagon jumper. She stuck her finger into the wind to see which way the political winds blew on LENR and so she joins in the negative nabob chorus for LENR and doesn’t criticize Hot Fusion. She knows next to nothing on either subject.
Standard justification of the “entertainment” troll. We saw a lot of that on Certifigate threads. And when DarwinCentral and WideAwake got started as spinoff websites from FR, the participants directly admitted to such behavior so they could piss off conservatives.
There is one significant threshold that Ross claimed recently. But I haven’t posted a “Rossi says” thread in over 2 years.
So, with that in mind, Rossi claimed multiple times recently that he’s no longer involved on the business end, that he’s transferred that responsibility and he’s the CTO of the company, not the CFO. And that as part of this transfer, the group has generated LENR devices that exhibit excess heat based ONLY upon his instructions on how to build the devices.
That’s significant in LENR, if you are aware of the history of such things as the Patterson device. He had a working LENR device and was building up towards production but he was the only person on the planet who could build them. Then he died. His secret died with him. Now at least, if Rossi kicks the bucket, his secret lives on.
A different twist on “science progressing one funeral at a time”.
random multiplication.
***Go ahead, show all of us with your amazing analytical skills why that multiplication is invalid. Are you completely unaware of how metrics are generated in the first place? It sure looks like you are.
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