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To: justlurking
She might have been simply terrified.

I'm sure she was. But, how were the police supposed to know that?

It's their job to allow for that.

She was stopped at the White House, too. Then, she backed away and struck a Secret Service agent.

As I understand it, it was a White House traffic barrier, not the building itself. She could have simply made a turn onto a street that her experience had taught her was unobstructed, not noticing the fence. After slamming into it, she probably went into a degree of shock. The rest would be automatic panic, for which she would not have deserved to die.

After a simple traffic accident, out come a horde of guys with guns. She was probably terrified and confused. It's their job to allow for that. I doubt she was even cognizant that she'd hit the guy.

I didn't claim she was pointing a gun. I asked: if she had been threatening someone with a gun, would [you, not have] have blamed the police for shooting her?

No. The question has nothing to do with what happened. It was a specious argument.

And, then you can answer my followup question as well: is her automobile a less deadly weapon than a firearm?

It wasn't when they shot her because it was not moving, as your point about momentum makes evident. Simply possessing a weapon is not grounds for deadly force. People do surrender after chases. The police should have allowed for that; it's their job.

A hint: deflating tires only slows down a car. It doesn't immobilize it.

It slows it down enough so as not to be a threat of momentum. The officers can dodge it in time without tires, and even more easily if they plant a few slugs into the engine.

Measured in kinetic energy, an automobile is far more deadly than any handheld weapon.

Not when it is at rest. Believe me, a service revolver into the aluminum engine block would have stopped that car, pronto. If he had time to shoot her, he had time to disable the car. If she wasn't aiming a weapon, he had an obligation to hold his fire.

I see you also learned your police tactics from TV shows and movies.

BTW, this comment renders you a hot-head, just like the cop who shot her was. They are supposed to be trained to exercise judgment in a stressful situation. Unfortunately, the nature of that training has changed to where "officer safety" trumps "protect and serve."

The reason for that emphasis is public employee unions. Are you a supporter of such policies? Law enforcement isn't even on the top ten list of hazardous professions.

She had already struck a gate (actually, it was apparently a Barry-cade) at the White House, then struck a Secret Service agent after or when she backed away.

She might not have even known she hit him. Did she deserve to die for that?

If someone has already done that, you don't consider it possible they will do it again?

Not if I'm there with a service revolver to disable the car.

No, if I was her family, I'd sue the crap out of them and probably win. It's the mind set of these police as "us v. them" that gets them into this paranoid response set. It makes them so jumpy that they are demonstrably less effective as law enforcement officers, as documented by government statistics. Yet statistically, law enforcement is one of the safer "hazardous" jobs in America.

There are approximately 900,000 law enforcement officers in the United States. They suffer approximately 150 deaths per year. That's a rate of 0.1667 deaths per 100,000. By comparison, fishermen suffer over 200 deaths per 100,000, with loggers second at about 110. Police don't even make the top 20 on the list. There is no logical justification for the level of collective paranoia that has become a "corporate culture" of what has effectively become a standing army within the United States.

READ THAT BOOK. You'll learn something.

67 posted on 10/04/2013 12:42:46 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (ZeroCare: Make them pay; do not delay.)
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To: Carry_Okie

“”Measured in kinetic energy, an automobile is far more deadly than any handheld weapon.””

“Not when it is at rest.”
Unless its packed with explosives.

“Believe me, a service revolver into the aluminum engine block would have stopped that car, pronto. If he had time to shoot her, he had time to disable the car.”

Disabling a car with a duty weapon is very unlikely even IF the engine is aluminum. Police ammo doesnt have a great deal of penetration especially after traveling through a hood and other car parts. It also difficult to know where to aim especially when you cant see the engine. As someone who has shot alot of junk cars with 357 and 44 mag handguns, you would be surprised at how ineffective they are on the hard parts.


72 posted on 10/04/2013 1:07:14 PM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: Carry_Okie
As I understand it, it was a White House traffic barrier, not the building itself. She could have simply made a turn onto a street that her experience had taught her was unobstructed, not noticing the fence.

Per the NY Post, she drove from Stamford, CT, to DC and over several low barriers, into a driveway leading to the White House, and was stopped by a larger barricade.

ABC News reports that she thought she was obsessed with Obama, and thought she was monitored by him so he could broadcast her life on TV. At one point in December, she was led away in handcuffs and ordered to undergo a mental health evaluation.

The NY Post also reported that a few months ago, she was visiting her sister in NYC, and EMS took her away in restraints on a gurney, as she was screaming: ‘The world is going to end. We are all going to die. It is going to happen.’

You still want to stick with your "made a wrong turn" story?

READ THAT BOOK. You'll learn something.

The only thing I'll learn is that you have an axe to grind, and refuse to look at this incident in the context of the first responders that had to make a split-second decision.

The woman, her child, and the rest of her family have my sympathy. They have probably been dealing with her problems for a long time, and are sad that it came to this.

But, her death is not the fault of the police.

73 posted on 10/04/2013 3:00:25 PM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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