Posted on 10/03/2013 9:24:43 AM PDT by hoagy62
Chuck Smith, the evangelical pastor whose outreach to hippies in the 1960s helped transform worship styles in American Christianity and fueled the rise of the Calvary Chapel movement, died Thursday, Oct. 3, 2013, after a battle with lung cancer. He was 86. Diagnosed in 2011, Smith continued to preach and oversee administration at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (California), where he'd been pastor since 1965. In 2012, he established a 21-member leadership council to oversee the Calvary Church Association, a fellowship of some 1,600 like-minded congregations in the United States and abroad.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
For me, and for many others my age, music reaches and prepares the soul for worship. For us, seeker-centered churches and worship teams remove the focus of worship from where it should properly be located, which is on Jesus Christ.
The world has lost a great modern day Christian leader.
God bless you Chuck, and may your legacy live forever.
Calvary Chapel that Chukc began is not a seeker sensitive ministry my friend.
All cClvery Chapels teach from the Bible, book by book, verse by verse.
Maybe you should attend one before you accuse a church of being seeker sensitive just because they use music the masses understand.
Imagine the hate that was targeted towards the early church leaders who used bar hall songs in church. All they did was change the words, but the music was from songs sung in bars by drunks.
Remember, music is universal, it is the words incorporated in the music that makes it a worship song, not the instruments or the tune.
OK, so Luther did not, however I never mentioned who did.
So you pointing out that Luther did not means nothing.
It still does not change the facts that many did.
I am, sure Luther would appreciate you defending his name.
Next time you can do so when someone expressly says something about him which is wrong.
I sir, did not.
I like said there are churches out there to meet the needs of different sensibilities.
I do believe the Levites were worship-leaders of sorts for God’s people back in the days. There are many kinds of expressions of worship that are found in Scripture and pleasing to God.
All I did was post a link!
Could you (politely) inform me as to who these “early church leaders who used bar hall songs in church” were?
Certainly wasn’t John Calvin.
There are indeed, which is why I posted about God not being put in a box. It’s just that so much of today’s modern stuff, brought about in part by Chuck Smith and the Jesus People movement he helped create, is crowding out a style of worship that a lot of people grew up with, honor, and in fact adore.
And if you read Revelation 5 closely, you’ll see that worship in heaven is spoken, not sung. So I’m not sure how to handle that, quite frankly.
Like it or not, the Reformers were trying to purify the church more than make it relevant to the popular culture.
From here — http://voices.yahoo.com/what-effects-did-reformation-church-music-2066197.html
At the beginning of the reformation the organ's use in the church service was without question. It was associated with current secularism and street programs. Luther rarely directly addressed the issue; however, he did express some consent against it. As mentioned earlier, Zwingli's followers tore down many organs in churches as protest. Although Zwingli never directly supported these acts, he did not say anything against it either. For the most part, the Lutheran church left the issue of the organ as adiaphorous, that is neither approved nor forbidden. The primary objection that existed over the issue was that no love songs were played upon it and only psalms and sacred songs were played on the organ. Also, that it was not played in such a length or autocracy that it imposed on the parts of the service. Interestingly enough, it was saw in both Protestant and Catholic church that a familiar vocal piece that was played alone on the organ could take the place of a vocalized song because of the familiarity.
Something that some found offensive about the organ was a soloistic performance on the organ. It was saw as an “objectionable assertion of individuality, inappropriate to the ideas of the priesthood of all believers and of the congregationally centered lay service.(Douglas, 107).” Also, the use of secular melodic ideas on the organ was found to be offensive in the church. In the mind set of the people of that day, certain pieces were aloud, and even rose to liturgical service. Certain forms of secular music just were not admitted in the church service. It was these pieces that found offense in the hearts of the congregation when played on the organ. So, certain popular melodies that would be recognized as offensive could not be translated into worship songs, even if a new text were applied to the melody(Music in the Renaissance).
For me, and for many others my age, music reaches and prepares the soul for worship. For us, seeker-centered churches and worship teams remove the focus of worship from where it should properly be located, which is on Jesus Christ.
there are still
It is interesting that the leaders of the Reformation were leery of the organ. The current trend is away from organs because they are too “churchy.” The Reformers were fearful that they were too secular!
Like it or not, the Reformers were trying to purify the church more than make it relevant to the popular culture.
DESERT SONG (HILLSONG)
This is my prayer in the desert
When all that's within me feels dry
This is my prayer in my hunger and need
My God is a God who provides
Verse 2:
And this is my prayer in the fire
In weakness or trial or pain
There is a faith proved
Of more worth than gold
So refine me Lord through the flames
Chorus:
And I will bring praise
I will bring praise
No weapon formed against me shall remain
I will rejoice
I will declare
God is my victory and He is here
Verse 3:
And this is my prayer in the battle
When triumph is still on it's way
I am a conqueror and co-heir with Christ
So firm on His promise I'll stand
Bridge:
All of my life
In every season
You are still God
I have a reason to sing
I have a reason to worship
Verse 4:
This is my prayer in the harvest
When favor and providence flow
I know I'm filled to be emptied again
The seed I've received I will sow
Let's count. I count 24 personal pronouns in this song, as compared to eight mentions of God. It's more than fair to ask who this song is for, who it's about, and who it really serves. This song is about the seeker, not the Savior, and it's far from the only one in the book.
You're offended? Sorry, but I can't help that. And I won't apologize for it. Contemporary music hasn't completely wrecked all worship. But it's certainly ruined mine, as I'm not willing to move my family away from longtime friends we've made in our church.
But that's okay. You win. I lose. And for traditionalists like me, heartfelt worship loses too.
I looked into the whole idea of bar hall music being used but with different words, and i must admit that there are many reports of the type of music used, but nothing about any of the songs being written for bar hall music.
So, unless I find otherwise I must admit you are correct and I am wrong.
Now, as for modern music being written and sang for church services. I still find no problem with it.
As usual, it is the words of the songs, not the melody, nor the instrument used with the songs that makes the difference.
we must all find that which we feel is proper for our worshiping the Lord.
Calvary Chapel ministries is the most conservative and true to the Word of God than any other Evangelical ministries on this planet. That is why they are attacked by the left so much.
I do not know of any other ministry, who’s followers know the word of God as well as those who attend Calvary Ministries. I would put their understanding up against any other Christian ministry on this planet.
When it comes down to it, the teaching is what convicts the soul and leads one to understand God, not the form of worship music.
Expository teaching of the Word, book by book, verse by verse is the only way the Word should be taught, not a knee jerk topical type of teaching that is influenced by the events of the day.
I grew up going to both Lutheran and Catholic churches, never have I heard either ministry teach the word as Calvary does.
There’s a good part of me that thinks that we should eliminate all music from worship services. (Another part thinks otherwise!)
I have often heard the argument that it is solely about the words, but it really doesn’t follow through. As humans we have very strong associations with tunes and styles.
Singing the Doxology to “Roll Out the Barrel” simply won’t work. Singing “The Lord’s Prayer” to a rap beat probably won’t be accepted either. So, there are some sort of universal boundaries.
I suppose this really boils down to the question, should worship music be “sacred” (completely isolated from any “worldly” associations)? (This may not make anyone happy.)
After these things I heard[1] a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her." Again they said, "Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!"
Just check out all the times we are told to sing and play instruments to the Lord.
Psalm 100:1-2
A Psalm for giving thanks. Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth! Serve the Lord with gladness! Come into his presence with singing!
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
Psalm 95:1-2
Oh come, let us sing to the Lord; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation! Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving; let us make a joyful noise to him with songs of praise!
Ephesians 5:19
Addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,
James 5:13
Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.
Psalm 150:1-6
Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! ...
Psalm 147:1
Praise the Lord! For it is good to sing praises to our God; for it is pleasant, and a song of praise is fitting.
1 Corinthians 14:15
What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
Psalm 13:6
I will sing to the Lord, because he has dealt bountifully with me.
Psalm 95:1
Oh come, let us sing to the Lord; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation!
Zephaniah 3:17
The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.
Acts 16:25
About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them,
Psalm 71:8
My mouth is filled with your praise, and with your glory all the day.
Psalm 144:9
I will sing a new song to you, O God; upon a ten-stringed harp I will play to you,
Hebrews 2:12
Saying, “I will tell of your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.”
Psalm 33:3
Sing to him a new song; play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts.
Psalm 104:33
I will sing to the Lord as long as I live; I will sing praise to my God while I have being.
Romans 15:9
And in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written, “Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.”
Mark 14:26
And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
Exodus 15:1
Then Moses and the people of Israel sang this song to the Lord, saying, “I will sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider he has thrown into the sea.
John 4:23-24
But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Matthew 26:30
And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
Hebrews 13:15
Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.
Psalm 105:2
Sing to him, sing praises to him; tell of all his wondrous works!
Psalm 68:1-35
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. A Song. God shall arise, his enemies shall be scattered; and those who hate him shall flee before him! As smoke is driven away, so you shall drive them away; as wax melts before fire, so the wicked shall perish before God! But the righteous shall be glad; they shall exult before God; they shall be jubilant with joy! Sing to God, sing praises to his name; lift up a song to him who rides through the deserts; his name is the Lord; exult before him! Father of the fatherless and protector of widows is God in his holy habitation. ...
2 Samuel 6:1-23
David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. And David arose and went with all the people who were with him from Baale-judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the name of the Lord of hosts who sits enthroned on the cherubim. And they carried the ark of God on a new cart and brought it out of the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. And Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, were driving the new cart, with the ark of God, and Ahio went before the ark. And David and all the house of Israel were making merry before the Lord, with songs and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals. ...
Isaiah 12:5
“Sing praises to the Lord, for he has done gloriously; let this be made known in all the earth.
Psalm 100:1-5
A Psalm for giving thanks. Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth! Serve the Lord with gladness! Come into his presence with singing! Know that the Lord, he is God! It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. Enter his gates with thanksgiving, and his courts with praise! Give thanks to him; bless his name! For the Lord is good; his steadfast love endures forever, and his faithfulness to all generations.
Psalm 137:1-9
By the waters of Babylon, there we sat down and wept, when we remembered Zion. On the willows there we hung up our lyres. For there our captors required of us songs, and our tormentors, mirth, saying, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!” How shall we sing the Lord's song in a foreign land? If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget its skill! ...
Psalm 59:16
But I will sing of your strength; I will sing aloud of your steadfast love in the morning. For you have been to me a fortress and a refuge in the day of my distress.
John 4:23
But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.
John 4:24
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Micah 7:7
But as for me, I will look to the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.
Psalm 150:6
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord! Praise the Lord!
Psalm 47:1-9
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of the Sons of Korah. Clap your hands, all peoples! Shout to God with loud songs of joy! For the Lord, the Most High, is to be feared, a great king over all the earth. He subdued peoples under us, and nations under our feet. He chose our heritage for us, the pride of Jacob whom he loves. Selah God has gone up with a shout, the Lord with the sound of a trumpet. ...
Isaiah 42:10
Sing to the Lord a new song, his praise from the end of the earth, you who go down to the sea, and all that fills it, the coastlands and their inhabitants.
Psalm 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.
Psalm 8:9
O Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!
Exodus 15:2
The Lord is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation; this is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him.
Psalm 9:1
To the choirmaster: according to Muth-labben. A Psalm of David. I will give thanks to the Lord with my whole heart; I will recount all of your wonderful deeds.
1 Samuel 16:23
And whenever the harmful spirit from God was upon Saul, David took the lyre and played it with his hand. So Saul was refreshed and was well, and the harmful spirit departed from him.
2 Chronicles 20:19
And the Levites, of the Kohathites and the Korahites, stood up to praise the Lord, the God of Israel, with a very loud voice.
Of course I agree with you, but we live in an “in your face” age. There are those who insist on introducing contemporary (some read this as secular) music styles into the church. I have witnessed “shows” akin to American Idol. It seems as though church as become yet another venue to strut your stuff.
As you are now aware, there are those who have claimed falsely that this is nothing new, all generations have pushed for contemporary music in church, causing a ruckus. This is not true outside of a few instances.
You don’t have to go very far to hear someone complain that the music in church is “too loud” or “inappropriate.” Some go with their ears plugged (or hearing aids off), others have quit or have gone elsewhere.
Of course I agree with you, but we live in an “in your face” age. There are those who insist on introducing contemporary (some read this as secular) music styles into the church. I have witnessed “shows” akin to American Idol. It seems as though church as become yet another venue to strut your stuff.
As you are now aware, there are those who have claimed falsely that this is nothing new, all generations have pushed for contemporary music in church, causing a ruckus. This is not true outside of a few instances.
You don’t have to go very far to hear someone complain that the music in church is “too loud” or “inappropriate.” Some go with their ears plugged (or hearing aids off), others have quit or have gone elsewhere.
Radical, man!
Love Song - Little Country Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bAlE3Y2MAk
Love Song - Two Hands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyTMn7ULJV8
I don’t dissagree that some churches have become little more than shadows of the world instead of shadows of the Lord. However, to throw a blanket of guilt over all churches is wrong.
This thread was started to mourn the loss of a great teacher who in my opinion is as great a man of God as Billy Graham.
Calvary Chapels ministries is the driving force behind modern music being used in worship services, yet the worship service is but 15 to 30 minutes the service. Every Calvary Chapel follows it up with the most accurate conservative teachings from the Scriptures.
Whether it be Skip Heitzig, Greg Laury, or my local Calvary pastor Sam Allen, all of them use the same method of teaching as Chuck Smith used. They begin at the beginning of the Bible in genesis, and go through verse by verse, book by book until they reach the end of Revelations. Then they start from the beginning again.
You will not find too many ministries that teach in the exegesis style as they do. As I stated before, Christians who attend Calvary Chapels are the most knowledgeable Christians on the planet. God expects all Christians to study the word and understand it to properly defend it.
To make an issue out of the way they sing songs, or what instruments they use to sing with, is nothing more than misguided legalism. Every song they play during worship is directed towards our Lord, and all words are posted on screens for everyone to follow and learn.
I may not like some of them, but not because they are ungodly or too loud and obnoxious. Like all songs, I have the ones I prefer, the ones I really like, and the ones that just don’t move me, but they are all worthy to be sang in the presence of our Lord.
Usually the problem I have is when a worship leader seem to think it is all about them, because they will start ad-libbing their own versions of the song that no one can follow because it is different than the song they claim they are singing.
I still enjoy traditional hymns, and Southern Gospel music, but considering all music is given to us by God, it is only natural for us to dedicate all types to Him. If anyone is out of order it is the secular world using music to praise the world instead of God.
Everything in the world has been given to us, not the devil. It is man who decided to use God’s gifts to worship Satan and praise the world, not the other way around.
So when a person takes a type of music and uses it to praise God, it is the natural way it was supposed to be.
I am reminded about the time David danced in the street wearing only his undergarment playing the lute and singing to God as the Arc of the Covenant was brought into the city. His own wife said he was making a fool out of himself, but David was singing and playing to the Lord.
We are not supposed to be somber and quiet when praising God, we are to be loud as we sing his praises, but we are so worried that the world will say we are making a fool of ourselves that we tame it down and think we need to be real quiet and reserved.
So sing, reserve nothing when praising and singing to God, and He will bless you very openly, but be ashamed to do so in a public and open way, and he will be ashamed of you in return.
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