Replies

Here is my public apology, and I think with your earlier post I can type this with a much more sincere spirit than I could have earlier.

You and I have been friends for a long time here on FR and I am well aware that I jumped all over you last night (though as you can tell from my first post on the thread I was already going to commit "workplace violence" on someone). I have also lately become painfully aware of just how I treat other people (it ain't good), both here and elsewhere. I have a lot of work ahead of me (ken yehi ratzon).

Jewbacca . . . I am heartily sorry for my treatment of you last night. While my opinions are unchanged and my zeal unabated, I am full of regret and shame for the way I behaved toward you, especially considering that Sukkot is when the nations of the world are judged and that Hosha`na' Rabba' is our "day of atonement." I sincerely ask your forgiveness and shall attempt yet again (be`ezrat HaShem, 'aval beli neder) to correct my attitude and my behavior.

The 75 is a reference to FDR and his turning away of the St. Louis — filed with 900 or so Jewish refugees -— back to Nazi Germany, among his other lovely acts.

And you have my forgiveness. I merely point out that your words seemed to imply that you were claiming that until 1938 Jews in America were being told to "convert or die." The turning away of the St. Louis had nothing to do with any conversion crusade.

I don't think you're quite understanding my point, in part because of my own rage-fueled responses to you. I am not defending America or even Amercan chrstians per se. The thing is, I see Jewish aversion to Fundamentalist chrstians as an endorsement or preference for liberal chrstianity and its claims that there is no true religion, no way to know any objective religious truth, and that all religions, while purely man-made, should be respected for whatever rational truth they may contain. Unfortunately, because Judaism is not conventionally proselytary, many Jews assume it is not proselytary at all. This is not so. Indeed, in the distant past the attempts by Jews to convert non-Jews to the Noachide Laws triggered such violent reactions from the host populations that Jews adopted a withdrawn, quietist, and "tolerant" position almost as a necessity of survival.

This false belief in the non-proselytary nature of Judaism leads many Jews to sound like bahai, liberals, ecumaniacs, and eighteenth century enlightenment freemasons in their calls for tolerance and peace among all religions. The Torah does not call anywhere for peace among religions, at least not ultimately (though it's nice to live in a place and time where people aren't constantly slaughtering each other). Implied in many Jewish criticisms of Fundamentalist chrstians in politics is the notion that proselytary religion is itself something that must be destroyed and the only chrstians left share the tolerant attitude of non-proselytary religions (among which they number Judaism, of course). This amounts to a hypocritical "I can be orthodox in my non-proselytary faith, but you in your proselytary faith may not" that makes Jews look very bad. Now mind you--I'm all for outlawing chrstian proselytism in Israel this very minute, and anywhere else if it is done in the name of Jewish Theocracy. I am adamantly opposed to it when it is suggested in the hypocritcal name of liberal "tolerance."

Until Jews decide they want to convert this country to the Noachide Laws immediately (which I am all for), they should refrain from implying that Fundamentalist chrstians be denied the same secular/enlightenment "rights" they so stridently claim for themselves. I hope this helps to dispel some of the heat of my posts and lets a little light shine through.

Also, please understand that liberal chrstians are not the friends of Jews. Their "philo-Semitism" is not in fact philo-Semitism at all but rather a universalist indifferentism which regards Judaism as no more beautiful and worthy of protection than every other religion that has ever existed. And they are just as horrified by the way the ancient Jews treated the Canaanites as they are by how chrstians treat Jews ("the Canaanites of chrstendom"). They're also among the most nasty people in existence. But I suppose you'd have had to have been a fundamentalist chrstian yourself to understand what total mamzerim they are. And yes, while I recognize more than ever how imperfect it is, I still maintain that fundamentalist chrstians (especially the American "dispensational" variety) have a love for Israel that is more sincere than that of the liberals, even though many of the foundations of that love are false. And yes, they drive me crazy sometimes too, as I hope you can see from my arguments with them here. But anyway, would that Jews were as skeptical of and hostile towards the professed friendship of liberal chrstians as they are to that of fundamentalists!

I wish you a peteq tov and hope that your mechilah will permit me to receive one as well.