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To: Ohioan; wardaddy; lonestar; Pelham; GeronL
I endorse everything that William flax said in his reply #261.

We should consider that this is first a political forum, albeit a conservative political forum, and that implies that we should think about the political implications of these matters.

In other words do we make politics out of culture? Do we try to impose our cultural views, in this case our religious views concerning sex, on the culture by way of enacting laws?

I'm not sure what we have been doing works, indeed, it might even be counterproductive. The apostles of the Frankfurt School set about to undermine the culture which upheld the political system against the onslaught of communism. Particularly, they sought to undermine the family, the role of the father, impose militant feminism, advanced recreational sex, promote abortion-in short promote everything which undermines faith and ultimately the political structure.

In doing so they align themselves in the eyes of the youth with enlightened attitudes about sex. Conservatives naturally resist these overtures and in the eyes of youth they are regarded as Puritans intruding themselves into the privacy of the bedroom.

This is a battle we are losing. Justice in our cause, logic of our arguments, prudence of a righteous lifestyle and the imprudence of a profligate lifestyle, all have little impact on these young voters. Think Sandra Fluke.

The point is that we have to decide where we want the criminal law to intervene and where we must let culture take its course. I have long advocated that the test should be the existence or absence of an identifiable victim. Thus, living in Germany and having seen legalized, prostitution and having compared with what I saw in America, I conclude that the German system works better. On the other hand, I am unalterably opposed to abortion because of the undeniable reality of a victim, and a helpless victim at that.

Applying this rule across the board might, repeat "might," just improve our chances at the polling booths and in the long run have a more salubrious effect on the culture than the losing battle we are currently waging.

The apostles of The Frankfurt School knew that they must change politics by changing culture from the bottom up. We conservatives who, if nothing else believe in the primacy of the individual, have somehow sought to control the culture from the top down by the enactment of criminal laws. Perhaps we should rethink the political implications of our faith and learn to draw a distinction between what we attempt to achieve in our lives and through our influence and what we try to impose through the criminal law.


262 posted on 08/17/2013 11:19:02 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford; lonestar; Pelham; GeronL; wardaddy
I, in turn, agree with most of the distinctions that you suggest.

I will make this point, that while the Left may try to paint Conservatives as "puritans," history & reality are quite different. While we believe in keeping private things, private; this leads to a freer society than the muck-raking into everyone's business that goes along with the Leftist efforts to collectivize everything--politically & socially. Historically, it was the Old South that rejected the Puritan culture of New England, and allowed far greater social freedom--a fact now deliberately overlooked in the Leftist effort to discredit traditional American culture.

What the Left has done in their promotion of promiscuity, no fault divorce, no obligation pregnancy, terminated by killing the baby, etc., is not to actually make people freer. Rather they have undermined responsibility, while killing romance. Thus you have so many in the younger generation now avoiding the lifestyle most consistent both to human happiness & an ongoing social order.

The Left has succeeded in replacing the Doris Day image of a young woman singing that "she enjoys being a girl," with the image of an aggressive dyke feeling persecuted because she still encounters some of us "neanderthals" who still recognize the reality that the sexes are functionally different--and that all human life, as an ongoing proposition--depends upon those differences.

See Feminist War On Love & Reason.

William Flax

264 posted on 08/17/2013 12:18:27 PM PDT by Ohioan
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