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Yeah, he screwed up the Bay of Pigs. JFK took public responsibility, even coined a phrase that he claimed was an old saying — “victory has a thousand fathers, defeat is an orphan”. To free the captured Brigade, he had diplomats negotiate an aid package for Castro, “Tractors for Peace” — perhaps thinking that Castro would then reject the USSR. Didn’t work. The Brigade was freed, and they presented their flag to JFK in a public ceremony, where he stated that it would be returned to them “in a free Cuba”.

JFK wasn’t literally in the trenches, he was a PT boat veteran. When the boat was blasted to splinters, and he’d injured his back, he swam around getting his unconscious buddies face up in the water. He served with honor, as millions did and still do.

Because of that injury, he went on crutches during his early Senate career, and scheduled his back surgery to coincide with the vote to condemn — it wasn’t technically a censure — Joe McCarthy, because he couldn’t be on record voting on either side of that one; his voters in Mass wouldn’t have accepted a vote to condemn, and his fellow Demwits wouldn’t have accepted the other.

Miiltary advisers shoot back when they’re shot at, nothing odd about that. And 16,000 was a drop in the bucket compared with the peak months of LBJ’s escalation.

His philandering was revolting, and naturally the media shills clammed up about it. I think it was Bernard Kalb who 20 or 25 years later mentioned seeing JFK chasing some laughing female staffer into an office in the evening hours, and claiming that kind off thing was never considered anything but off-limits.

It’s probably safe to say that JFK wasn’t the first — even boring old Warren G Harding was a womanizer while in office, but managed to keep that secret, and it probably wasn’t at the level of JFK and his fellow lanceman RFK. It’s difficult to believe that their wives remained blissfully unaware.

I don't think you can honestly live down something like the Bay of Pigs. You endure it and move on. He was a goat on that subject. He deserved to be. He took the Truman approach to blame, and I thought that was the best thing to do.

I realize he wasn't in the trenches, but I did use that phrase meaning he was on duty in a battle zone and not somewhere behind a desk. He was hauled out and helped by some Seventh-Day Adventist tribes people. I was raised an SDA, so I remember reading about it. John and his older brother both served with destinction. Of course Jack didn't make it back. Pappy Joe had wanted him to be the President. Yes, John served with honor, and in an era where millions did, that was to be expected. I appreciate the fact though.

By the end of the Johnson years, we had in excess of 500,000 troops in Vietnam. Funny how quickly that became Nixon's fault. The media was just menacingly mean.

It seems to me that when you're in a high office, you put your worst side to rest for the duration. The office demands respect, but it also requires it from my perspective.

Thanks for the discussion.

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