Posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:04 AM PDT by IbJensen
Pope Francis on Monday said “who am I to judge?” gay people as he discussed one of the most divisive issues affecting the Catholic Church.
Pope Francis, who gave a press conference on his flight back from Brazil, said he had stayed away from the gay marriage debate on his trip because he wanted to stay positive.
“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.
“They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."
Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind -- including political ones -- were bad.
"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said.
The press conference, which lasted for an hour and 20 minutes, was held during the flight back from his week-long trip to Brazil.
The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.
All priests take a vow of celibacy when they become members of the clergy.
The pontiff went to Brazil on his first visit overseas since he was elected in March.
The Pope said he had stayed away from the issue of gay marriage and also abortion on his week-long trip to Brazil because he wanted to stay positive.
Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop “the theology of women in the church.”
He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked.
"Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."
History's first Latin American pope said he was "pretty tired" but with a happy heart after his first overseas trip.
He said he was amazed at the number of people who turned out to see him in Brazil, especially the three million who jammed Copacabana Beach for Sunday's Mass.
He added that he was unconcerned by the tumultuous start to the trip that included the discovery of a bomb at a shrine he visited and the mob scene that took place when his driver inadvertently made wrong turn.
"There's always the danger of a crazy person, but there is also the Lord," he said. "This being close is good for everyone."
And therein lies the problem with today's new religion edicted by local bishops and ignored by the Vatican. No wonder the Church today is larded with scandals serious enough to get the perpetrator a millstone around his neck!
BINGO!
So...hate the murder and molestation but NOT the murder-er or molest-er??
Where is the chastisement of Jesus Christ, "GO AND SIN NO MORE."? Where??
“there is controversy..because he is saying it’s okay to be gay...just not lobby”
Right you are.
In the direct translation (I posted it somewhere above), the Pope criticizes the homosexual lobby. He says: "One must distinguish between being gay, having this tendency, and lobbying."
For the record, I do not like the term "gay" being misused in that way, either. But, I think maybe the Pope just hasn't heard the United States conservative's argument against the misuse of this English word.
First, let’s look at what John Paul the Great said about
women being ordained. No matter what another Pope thinks about women in the Church there will never be women priests.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/women-and-the-priesthood
“I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful” (OrdinatioSacerdotalis 4).
And in 1995 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in conjunction with the pope, ruled that this teaching “requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium 25:2)” (Response of Oct. 25, 1995)”
No need in discussing sodomites. We all know what the Cathecism of the Catholic Church says about sodomy. That also will never change. It is written in stone.
The only thing Pope Francis or any other Pope will do is tell you what the Church’s position is. He upholds the teachings of the Church. He changes nothing. Sorry libs.
That's not "criticism"; That's a swat with a feather-duster.
For the record, I do not like the term "gay" being misused in that way, either. But, I think maybe the Pope just hasn't heard the United States conservative's argument against the misuse of this English word.
The Pope's words were VERY carefully chosen, my friend. He ill-advisedly legitimized the euphemistically deceptive propagandist word, "gay" instead of "homosexual".
In your church, if you have somebody who had a sinful past and wants to repent of that, you tell them that their sin is unforgivable and that they are unwelcome, if that sin they repent of is homosexuality.
If that sin is ongoing because of continuous homosexual thoughtso even if no alleged actions, it’s kind of hard to ever get over the sin, isn’t it. Perhaps then that person would be better suited to leave the Catholic Church and join the Episcopalians where he/she would be more welcome.
He should have just said he loves the sinner and hates the sin
The two are not the same. We have a sinful nature which we always struggle against and can not prevail against without the Grace of God. Giving into the temptation is the sin, not the struggle against it.
“Please re-read Book that your gang claims to have delivered to the world...it has another story. One without a Roman pontiff, without venerating Mary, without indulgences, without genuflecting, without candles, without men in bathrobes riding in bullet proof cars. Check it out...it is free”
Yes, and all you want to do is jump over 1500 years of biblical writings, interpretation, traditions and history and then claim the interpretation of that book (the Bible) as your own. It doesn’t work that way.
On a doctrinal level, encouraging such a person to join the Episcopalians would be similar to condemning the person to Hell, as the 'piskies would just encourage them to act on their urges, while the Catholic Church would encourage them to learn to pick up their cross and follow Him (Mt 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.)
On a practical basis, in many (most) parishes, the subject sadly doesn't come up. And I can just see liberal heterodox Catholics citing this MSM account to say that the Church has changed its position, when nothing of the sort has been changed.
Judging from reactions here, maybe not so much.
Preaching to the Sunday only (between the hours of 10am and 12:01pm) Catholics.
I use SSA to mean a person who is sexually attracted to somebody of the same sex. It is a disorder which is against what God wants for us. Those who truly fight this desire and want to live chaste lives should be supported by Christians. Especially now when they are told by so many to just give in and that there is no sin at all in sodomy.
If we simply give them a message of damnation without telling them how Salvation is theirs through and in Jesus Christ we have failed. We must always speak the truth with our main concern being that the message of the Gospel does not get drowned out by the lies of the World, the Flesh, and The Devil.
Agreed. I would’ve liked for him to have been stronger in his criticism.
“Catholics citing this MSM account to say that the Church has changed its position, when nothing of the sort has been changed.”
The Church’s position may not have changed, but the Pope’s interpretation of it is being bent bigtime.
-Now there will be NO IRS audits of Roman Catholic Churches in America.
-Now Catholic schools will not have to hand out condoms to their students.
-Now Catholic hospitals will not have to provide birth control and abortion services.
-Obama will drop the Order he issued to them to start providing birth control and abortions.
-The IRS will now DROP the requirement that the Roman Catholic Church Pro-Life groups clear their prayers with the IRS, before praying them, like they did to that PL group in Iowa.
The pope’s statements are a major, 90 degree left turn from the previous positions of the previous popes following Pius XII, who were all lukewarm on most of the major tenets of the Church, but stood firm on abortion and sodomy.
It’s amazing to me how some feeble non-believers think that the mind of god can shift so strongly and swiftly from one pope to the next. These cafeteria Catholics believe that Jesus Christ should be brought into the 21st century and are too stupid to believe that our Savior does not change and he doesn’t wear Nikes, nor does he wear a loose baseball cap backwards!
This pope is a true modernist with deep secular leanings and stands as proof that the Church will not change until the second coming. There are many churchmen that will not make it past the Pearly Gates.
Francis is the antithesis of what the leader who sits on the throne of Peter should be.
Watch your back, FRiend. Your co-religionists will be gunning for you for telling the truth.
An expert of God's word.
Who believe that Genesis is primitive mythology--just like Mary did, I assume.
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