Posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:04 AM PDT by IbJensen
Pope Francis on Monday said “who am I to judge?” gay people as he discussed one of the most divisive issues affecting the Catholic Church.
Pope Francis, who gave a press conference on his flight back from Brazil, said he had stayed away from the gay marriage debate on his trip because he wanted to stay positive.
“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.
“They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."
Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind -- including political ones -- were bad.
"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said.
The press conference, which lasted for an hour and 20 minutes, was held during the flight back from his week-long trip to Brazil.
The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.
All priests take a vow of celibacy when they become members of the clergy.
The pontiff went to Brazil on his first visit overseas since he was elected in March.
The Pope said he had stayed away from the issue of gay marriage and also abortion on his week-long trip to Brazil because he wanted to stay positive.
Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop “the theology of women in the church.”
He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked.
"Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."
History's first Latin American pope said he was "pretty tired" but with a happy heart after his first overseas trip.
He said he was amazed at the number of people who turned out to see him in Brazil, especially the three million who jammed Copacabana Beach for Sunday's Mass.
He added that he was unconcerned by the tumultuous start to the trip that included the discovery of a bomb at a shrine he visited and the mob scene that took place when his driver inadvertently made wrong turn.
"There's always the danger of a crazy person, but there is also the Lord," he said. "This being close is good for everyone."
Queen of Heaven is a title used for goddesses central to many religions of antiquity.
TITLE: THE VIRGIN MARY IS POPULARLY AND AFFECTIONATELY CALLED THE “QUEEN OF HEAVEN”.
Subtitle: THIS TITLE IS SHOCKING AND DEMONSTRATES THAT THE ORIGIN OF THE WORSHIP OF THE VIRGIN MARY IS PAGAN, NOT BIBLICAL
NEWS BRIEF: “Among all the women who have ever lived, the mother of Jesus Christ is the most celebrated, the most venerated... Among Roman Catholics, the Madonna is recognized not only as the Mother of God, but also, according to modern Popes, as the Queen of the Universe, Queen of Heaven, Seat of Wisdom, and even the Spouse of the Holy Spirit.” (Time Magazine, “Handmaid or Feminist?”, December 30, 1991, p. 62-66).
http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc109.htm
The Bible is absolutely clear that we are to worship God alone. The only instances of anyone other than God receiving worship in the Bible are false gods, which are Satan and his demons. All followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshipped (Acts 10:25-26; 14:13-14). The holy angels refuse to be worshipped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same, “Worship God!”
Roman Catholics attempt to “bypass” these clear Scriptural principles by claiming they do not “worship” Mary or saints, but rather that they only “venerate” Mary and the saints. Using a different word does not change the essence of what is being done. A definition of “venerate” is “to regard with respect or reverence.” Nowhere in the Bible are we told to revere anyone but God alone. There is nothing wrong with respecting those faithful Christians who have gone before us (see Hebrews chapter 11). There is nothing wrong with honoring Mary as the earthly mother of Jesus. The Bible describes Mary as “highly favored” by God (Luke 1:28). At the same time, there is no instruction in the Bible to revere those whom have gone to Heaven. We are to follow their example, yes, but worship, revere, or venerate, no!
When forced to admit that they do, in fact, worship Mary, Catholics will claim that they worship God through her, by praising the wonderful creation that God has made. Mary, in their minds, is the most beautiful and wonderful creation of God, and by praising her, they are praising her Creator. For Catholics, this is analogous to directing praise to an artist by praising his sculpture or painting. The problem with this is that God explicitly commands against worshipping Him through created things. We are not to bow down and worship anything in the form of heaven above or earth below (Exodus 20:4-5). Romans 1:25 could not be more clear, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen.” Yes, God has created wonderful and amazing things. Yes, Mary was a godly woman who is worthy of our respect. No, we absolutely are not to worship God “vicariously” by praising things (or people) He has created. Doing so is blatant idolatry.
The major way Catholics “venerate” Mary and the saints is by praying to them. As the following article demonstrates, prayer to anyone other than God alone is anti-Biblical – praying to saints and Mary. Whether Mary and/or the saints are prayed to, or whether they are petitioned for their prayers – neither practice is Biblical. Prayer is an act of worship. When we pray to God, we are admitting that we need His help. Directing our prayers to anyone other than God is robbing God of the glory that is His alone.
Another way Catholics “venerate” Mary and the saints is by creating statues and images of them. Many Catholics use images of Mary and/or the saints as “good luck charms.” Any cursory reading of the Bible will reveal this practice as blatant idolatry (Exodus 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 12:12; 1 John 5:21). Rubbing rosary beads is idolatry. Lighting candles before a statue or portrayal of a saint is idolatry. Burying a Joseph statue in hopes of selling your home (and countless other Catholic practices) is idolatry.
The terminology is not the issue. Whether the practice is described as “worship” or “veneration,” or any other term, the problem is the same. Any time we ascribe something that belongs to God, to someone else, it is idolatry. The Bible nowhere instructs us to revere, pray to, rely on, or “idolize” anyone other than God. We are to worship God alone. Glory, praise, and honor belong to God alone. Only God is worthy to “...receive glory and honor and power...” (Revelation 4:11). God alone is worthy to receive our worship, adoration, and praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 15:4).
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/worship-saints-Mary.html#ixzz2abMntZsS
I see six paragraphs. I read half of the first sentence, like anyone else
I skim and se ‘catholic as claim...’ And you have lost me and everyone else
One sentence from the catechism or th bible that says that we
Catholics claim that we worship Mary and I’ll give you
More of the time of day. But you can’t find it
I mean your post was so off the charts long and BS I had to re register
Crazy
I am sorry you feel that way. I posted it because I thought it might be enlightening. I know it was for me, way back when. I guess I forget that a lot of folk just don’t have the interest, or the attention span.
If you only read half of the first sentence please refrain from giving an opinion then because it will be an ill-informed one.
And you are not hurting my feelings by stating that nobody else will read it either. I was led to put it out there, whether anyone wants to read it or not is not going to make my day either way.
Why do you not capitalize God when you refer to HIM?
I did’t have an opinion
You entered into an argument
Which is three days old and it was won be two days ago and the two others who entered into it beyond their business are now gone
So I don’t have any opinion about what you are blithering about
If you care to go over the thread and know what you are talking about and lose a no win argument along with the other four, go ahead, but I have no opinion about your ramblings
Attention span
About what
I’ve maintained my attention on defending the Catholic Church against four offenders for three days.
My attention to the topic outlasted five illogical people
Stay out of it
Merely an accident I assure you.
You’ve forgotten the words Jesus said to Peter(Peter) “Upon this rock I build my Church. Whatsoever you loosen on earth is loosened in Heaven; whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven”.
The subsequent Church was filled with dedicated scholars that pray daily for guidance in their work of delving into Holy scripture and understanding what was meant.
St. James wrote extensively about the history on earth of Jesus Christ as well as the origins of his earthly family. I don’t know whether or not that was to explain the Church to Thomases or merely to augment the Holy Bible.
Immaculate Conception wasn’t pulled out of thing air, but was a carefully thought out reason for the physical being of Jesus Christ.
The Bible doesn’t say a lot of thins that we see and hear of in today’s mangled world: Protestant isn’t in there and, of course, Muslim or Islam isn’t as it came along later to fill the dull, empty minds of those who were barely above the level of animal.
Oh, another thing I forgot.
My right arm is utterly useless thanks to an especially angered Chinese Communist and it is somewhat difficult to type.
However, the more I thought of your extreme attempt at nit-picking the more I thought you must be something of a twit.
Here's how to judge homosexuals. We are all sinners, but if you are engaging in unrepentant sin, then you are headed for eternal hellfire. As a Christian I am commanded to love you enough to warn you of this.
Making judgments because of love is always the right thing to do.
APPROPRIATE JUDGMENT:
You are about to get hit by a truck. You better move.
INAPPROPRIATE JUDGMENT:
He is sinning and I am not. Therefore I am better than him. Hah!
The Pope’s remarks... hardly represent a break with Catholic church doctrine, which still condemns homosexuality. The Vatican’s catechismal stance regarding the LGBTs in our midst remains the same: The church may love the sinner, but it hates the sin. And since Francis was referring specifically to gay priests—who like other Catholic clerics take a vow of celibacy and so don’t commit the “sin”— His Holiness wasn’t exactly going out on a theological limb.
Okay, that was terrific material. We would hope that God would grant the Catholics around here the opportunity to recognize their misplaced devotion. Perhaps your info will be instrumental. Thanks for postings.
Odd how you were so careful to capitalize properly through the entire post, but not when it came to God. Name calling truly unnecessary.
And God of Light, Merciful God, Son of God, King of Kings are titles used for other gods in many religions of antiquity
Just because a title was used somewhere else does not taint it in any way
Or worshipping Thor and Wodan by using the terms Thursday and Wednesday?
Furthermore if you call Jesus Christ King of Kings, you should do a study on who the King of Kings actually was.
Furthermore if you call Jesus Christ Lord, you should do a study on who the term “Lord” or as translated into Semitic “Baal” really was — do you see the illogicality of stating that two different people have the same title are the same?
thanks!
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