Posted on 06/29/2013 7:12:27 PM PDT by markomalley
Many conservatives gave Sen. Marco Rubio the benefit of the doubt when he said securing the border first was a top priority for the Gang of Eight comprehensive immigration reform effort. Later, when those conservatives realized that Rubio’s plan would first legalize the country’s estimated 11 million illegal immigrants, and only then put new border security measures in place, they expressed deep disappointment and disillusionment.
Now the Gang bill has passed the Senate and immigration is the work of the House, where former vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan is a leading reform advocate. Ryan favors the same legalization-first sequence for immigration reform that Rubio and the Gang did. The difference is that now, more conservatives are aware of the basics of reform proposals. And that means Ryan might be in for a rougher ride with the conservative base than Rubio experienced.
That, at least, is one conclusion to take from Ryan’s appearance last Wednesday on Sean Hannity’s Fox News program. Hannity interviewed Rubio several times during the Gang of Eight deliberations. In later interviews, Hannity became more skeptical and questioning, and in the last such interview expressed surprise that Rubio had declared legalization would come before border security. With Ryan in the interview chair, the first thing Hannity wanted to know was when securing the border would come in the sequence of immigration reform.
“I’m sure you are aware, a lot of conservatives including myself are angry,” Hannity told Ryan. “No border security first. How do you feel about it?”
Ryan stressed that the House would not take up the Senate Gang of Eight bill. “We want to have real triggers on the border, real triggers on what we call the E-Verify,” Ryan said. But Hannity wanted to know if that meant border security would come first: “Is securing the border first a top priority for you?” he asked.
“It is a top priority for me,” Ryan answered. But then Ryan explained that immigration reform as he envisions it would, like the Gang of Eight bill, begin with legalization, and only after that would it do the work of securing the border:
Hear what I say. What we’re talking about in the House is we’re saying, people who are here undocumented, because we realize we cannot deport 11 million people and find them and deport them, so we want to put them on a probationary status, that’s the kind of thinking we have here, and they can’t get out of that probationary status, they can’t get legal permanent residence, which is what Chuck Grassley was talking there*, until these border efforts are made, until the border is secure, until the E-Verify set up.
Now, we don’t want to leave it to the executive branch like Janet Napolitano to make that decision, we want objective metrics, we want Congress’ auditing on the General Accountability Office to tell us whether or not these metrics have been met, whether or not the border is really secure, whether or not the verification system is up and running. And only until that has occurred can a person in this status change their status from probation to something other than that.
Ryan’s position could not have been clearer: First, comes the legalization, and then come the measures to secure the border.
Hannity was skeptical and challenging. “My sources have been telling me, congressman, that you guys are considering a five-year temporary legal status, and then if the border security measure is not met in five years, that that would be revoked.”
“That’s right,” Ryan said. “That’s right.”
“I don’t believe that would ever happen,” Hannity shot back. Ryan answered:
Well, look, they can’t get — what a person would want to have, is they would come out of the shadows, they’d get put on probation, they’d pay taxes, pay fines, learn English, learn civics. If they break the terms of their probation, they can be deported. And if the border is not secure by that time, if the verification system is not up and running, they can’t get — not only does the status go away, they can’t get legal permanent residence…
If you want to get this population, the undocumented population, in legal permanent residency, get them a green hard, then these other things have to happen first, the border has to be secured, the E-Verify system has to be up and running. That’s the kind of system we’re talking about here in the House.
That is precisely the structure provided for in the Senate Gang of Eight bill that Senate Republicans opposed two-to-one. Hannity sensed that immediately.
“But what I’m hearing you say, is you’re still giving them legal status first, albeit temporary,” Hannity said. “And I think I speak for a lot of people, congressman. Most people see that when we are promised spending cuts, we get the tax increase, we never get the spending cut. We get the amnesty, we never get the border security. Why wouldn’t you support something such as expediting, building the security measures in — I mean, we sent men to the moon, couldn’t we do within 12 months, 18 months?
Ryan didn’t answer the question, instead stressing that legalization is necessary for the government to learn the real identities of the 11 million currently illegal immigrants. “We think it’s important to get legal immigration working in order to secure the border, to do it this way,” Ryan said. “This is not giving anybody an amnesty.”
“All right,” Hannity said. “So, what you’re saying is, temporary legal status, do you blame me for being suspicious — ”
“Not at all,” said Ryan.
” — that it would never be revoked, whether or not the border was ever secure?” Hannity said. “That why I think myself and a lot of conservatives are saying, don’t we have a right to have sovereign borders and that done first? Why not do that first?”
“Sean, I’m suspicious as well,” Ryan said. Past reforms have not worked, Ryan added, and this time, he wants to take a “wide gate, high fence” approach to immigration. “We think legal immigration that works and is viable is the best way of securing the border — it’s sort of a wide gate, high-fence approach….We need a workable legal immigration system, while we get the border under control and have employment verification system, because illegal immigration and identity theft are sort of one in the same thing.”
No matter how many times Hannity asked the question, Ryan’s answer was still the same: legalization first. But Hannity kept trying. “You know, I’m listening to you, and obviously, you put a lot of thought into this,” he told Ryan. “I talk to a lot of conservatives, they write me, they’re writing me right now on Twitter, and I can predict for you what the answer is going to be. If you don’t trust the government, and I don’t trust the government, and we can send a man on the moon, why don’t we just secure the border and expedite it immediately? Make it a national security priority and then deal with these other issues. Why is that not an option for you?”
“Because in order to secure the border, you have to have a workable legal immigration system that people who are trying to come to this country to work have a way of coming here legally,” Ryan said. “You can’t just seal it off, you need to make sure that people can come here legally and we also have to remember, we’ve got 11 million people in the country who are undocumented who either overstayed their visa or crossed the border illegally. What are we going to do? We’re not going to be able to find them and deport them. We have to find a way of dealing with this population, we want to do it in a way that respects the rule of law, and puts them at the back of the line, so that everybody who did things right — ”
“Can’t you do that after the border is secure, though?” asked Hannity.
“We think it goes with the border,” Ryan said. “We think it’s the best way to secure the border is to have this workable legal immigration system alongside it.”
By that point, it was obvious that Ryan is firmly and probably unchangeably committed to the legalization-first approach. Knowing that many conservative Republicans are firmly and probably unchangeably committed to an enforcement-first approach, Hannity moved on to the consequences of an internecine fight over the issue. “I’m concerned that there’s going to be a conservative revolt and a divide in the Republican Party,” he said. “Are you at all worried about that?”
“Of course I’m worried about that,” Ryan said. “But I want to get it right. I want it to work.”
Hannity’s tone was respectful throughout. But all in all, the interview had an entirely different tone from the questions asked Marco Rubio early in the Senate Gang of Eight process. Look for Paul Ryan to face a more aggressive, and more skeptical, conservative media as the House reform work goes forward.
* It’s unclear what Ryan meant by the reference to Grassley. The Iowa senator introduced an amendment that would have delayed the initial legalization of immigrants until after border security measures were in place. That was a non-starter both for Democrats on the Gang of Eight and would most likely be for Democrats in the House as well.
Ryan is not a constitutional conservative. He’s a card-carrying member of the cheap labor party. I hope he’s primaried.
The illegals came across the border under their own power. They can go back the same way, and will if employment opportunities dry up.
Strong employer penalties for hiring illegals (fines and incarceration) would eliminate opportunities for illegals to work. This also would increase employment opportunities for welfare queens, chronic unemployed and others sucking on the government teat.
The illegals came across the border under their own power. They can go back the same way, and will if employment opportunities dry up.
Strong employer penalties for hiring illegals (fines and incarceration) would eliminate opportunities for illegals to work. This also would increase employment opportunities for welfare queens, chronic unemployed and others sucking on the government teat.
They push this through, I am done with them. Let the party implode if they succeed granting legal status to a person who is here by breaking the law and overstaying a visa. You or I would not be allowed to remain in another country under those circumstances. A new resistance will form from the grassroots. They are Not going to change political directions, I don’t see it. Like Rubio, they are beholding to the rich club guys who pour money into the party for returns of getting what they want. Wealthier mass more riches; the working family will be like re-living the Carter days/struggling for work, tho only worse. Imo.
What taxes will they be paying Ryan?? The EITC?
What good does it do to have them paying payroll/entitlement taxes if they get the money back in EITC and then later get the entitlements too?
Immediate probational legalization wouldn't be bad if it came with the condition that they REALLY pay (income) taxes and don't get ANY handouts. If it required them to be part of the 53%. Many wouldn't come forward in that case, which is why the Senate bill has all those loopholes. We could use some more taxpayers.
Despite that “people for a conservative direction” disinformation ad that’s been circulating on the TV and radio, I don’t think any informed and principled conservatives were fooled by the Gang of Eight.
So, let me get this right...the guys that died at the Alamo fighting for their country, should have just raised the white flag and surrendered to Santa Ana because it would be just too difficult to defeat the nice guy Mexicans?
It’s just too difficult to deport all of the illegals? Oh my, well then, resign your government position and allow people with stiffer backs to enforce the laws of this country. How on earth did we end up with such Nancy boys running this country?
Rubio may as well start working on his real estate license.
Ryan too, for that matter.
If these guys are GOP, I’m not.
He isn't just a liar. He's also dumb to think we can't think or remember.
The fence can be built immediately, and he gave absolutely no reason why it couldn't be built. To the question of why can't we build the fence first, the illogic of his answer is astounding: Because in order to secure the border, you have to have a workable legal immigration system that people who are trying to come to this country to work have a way of coming here legally,”
If I follow that, "we can't build the fence first because immigrants need a legal way to come to this country." Smack yourself in the head, Paul, the fence HELPS them to come here legally by PREVENTING them from coming here ILLEGALLY! Ryan's argument is that they can't come here legally if a fence is in place!! The absurdity of it is mind-boggling.
I used to think it was Romney who made Romney/Ryan fail. Apparently, Ryan is a slick-meister as well. Should have known it, those Miami Oxford grads are all beer and privilege.
On that basis alone, the idea that the Senate bill is "comprehensive" immigration reform" is ludicrous.
Why are there so many morons in the Senate???
They refuse to believe the old paradigm doesn’t apply.
Pass controversial bills in the off-years, wait for the people to forget, and then demonize the opposition during the election cycle.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Also do some real combing out. Check out immigration papers at every traffic stop, every law enforcement encounter, every welfare/food stamp office, and every time somebody comes to a hospital seeking free care. Then deport those who can’t prove they’re legally here. That’s pretty much what happens in foreign countries to Americans. Just go to England, get involved in a traffic stop, not be able to show your passport and US driver’s license and see what happens.
The Gang of Eight did accomplish one thing. They guaranteed there will not be a Republican president in a long long time. If ever.
I know I will not be voting for any Republican above the county level again. Hell, if they are going to act like Democrats, I may as well vote for the real thing.
“when he said securing the border first “
‘Securing the border’ is pointless anyway.
It just means that the ones who do manage to get across the border are home free.
If you are afraid to deport them then all that they have to do is keep trying until they finally get across.
Not one of the political hacks whose duty it is to enforce the law obeys their oath of office.
Not one of them will deport the foreign nationals who have flooded into our country.
We don’t have a government of laws. We have rulers who do nothing more than what they feel like doing, the law be damned.
Fool us once, shame on you.
Fool us twice, double shame on you.
Fool us thrice, now cut that out before we really do something and by the way... triple shame on you.
Yep, forget the wacko-birds chirping, the GOP-e are hunting snipe!
The only way to reach knotheads like Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio is to take off the gloves and call them the liars they are, and remind them that the foot soldiers in the Republican base are using words every bit as strong.
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