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To: TArcher

Give some context. I’d bet that he was saying this is what the Jews of his day were acting like - as if their blood line makes them hot stuff, before whom even the Lord would bow. Today we’d call it racism. Semitic supremacy, maybe.

The Lord said that it was not because Israel was so great that He chose them to be His people, but because of His own grace, and Luther, like the apostles, pointed out the error of anybody who based their hope on their own goodness rather than on the promise of the Lord Himself - be they Jews, Christians, philosophers, Muslims, or whatever. What Luther was willing to lay his life on the line for was the Biblical teaching that it is God’s grace alone which saves, and that His grace comes to us by God through His gift of faith in God and His Word and promises.

And you obviously don’t know much about Lutheranism if you imply that Lutherans believe in the infallibility of anything human. That’s why Luther got in trouble with the popes; he believed they were fallible and that the Word which God preserved over thousands of years was to be trusted above the teachings of any one man. The Bible is full of the fallenness of man, including the very apostles who were witnesses of Christ’s life, death, resurrection, and ascension. As Paul wrote, we have this treasure in earthen pots to show that the transcendent power comes from God, not from us. Our trust is not in man, but in the Lord. That’s why Luther was disgusted by the arrogance of the Jews in his day who placed their trust in their own greatness or the greatness of their blood line/race/culture. And there have always been Christians who have done the same thing. That’s why Luther was wary of pietism as well. Anything that places hope in something other than the redemptive work of Jesus Christ and in the promises of God is a waste of time at best. We count everything as loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing our Lord and becoming like Him in His death so that we also rise with Him in His resurrection. I could give you Scripture after Scripture, from both Old and New Testaments, saying that our hope is in the Lord and His redemption of us in spite of our fallenness.

But Scripture is your gripe, isn’t it? You don’t trust Scripture. I wonder why that is.

In any event, you have not shown racism against Semites on the part of Luther or of Lutherans - but rather the objections to a theology or attitude held by some Jews as well as some non-Jews.

What you are showing is your own apparent bitterness. I’m sad about that. Man is fallen and fallible. Man’s speaking and hearing can both be messed up. What, then, do you put your hope in? Where’s the rescue? Anything that comes into your mind could just be your own fallenness speaking. Who will rescue you from your own fallenness?


55 posted on 06/16/2013 10:22:19 AM PDT by butterdezillion (,)
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To: butterdezillion

I trust scripture just fine. Wolves in the pulpet, not so much.


57 posted on 06/16/2013 1:34:52 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: butterdezillion
>>Who will rescue you from your own fallenness?



Where in the curriculum is the text in question likewise exposed?
58 posted on 06/16/2013 1:45:50 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: butterdezillion

>>Give some context.

” What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom...”
—Martin Luther
http://www.google.com/search?q=on+the+jews+and+their+lies


59 posted on 06/16/2013 1:56:10 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: butterdezillion

“In any event, you have not shown racism against Semites on the part of Luther “

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22First%2C+to+set+fire+to+their+synagogues+or+schools+and+to+bury+and+cover+with+dirt+whatever+will+not+burn%2C%22&btnG=Search&hl=en&biw=&bih=&gbv=1

“And Ye Shall Know the Truth and the Truth Shall Make You Free”


61 posted on 06/16/2013 2:10:07 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: butterdezillion

He wouldn’t give the requested context for the quote he cited, so I have been reading the entire text. The quote he gave was on page 61 at http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/JewsAndTheirLies.pdf . Reading that, you can see that my explanation was correct. He was saying that the Jews were acting as if the Lord and the angels must worship them and their farts, because they believe they have the right to undo the Word of God and call Him a liar.

So far what I have seen is refutation of the claims of the Jews of Luther’s day, although he also says that the Jews were practicing usury, getting rich off of the work of others, twisting words to slander Christians, etc. Whether that is anti-semitism or whether it is true, I don’t know. It actually sounds a lot like those today who complain about the 47% who live off the government teat. And the refutation of the claims sounds a lot like the way folks here don’t agree with taqiyya (Muslim lying for the cause), the slaughter of infidels, or violent jihad.


65 posted on 06/16/2013 5:13:53 PM PDT by butterdezillion (,)
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