An armed march on Washington?

Hey Kokesh! Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

5.56mm

Keep in mind, we are postulating a situation where the people are so angry, they want to march on Washington with arms. That would be idiotic no matter what. If we got 100,000 patriots armed with rifles and shotguns, sidearms and the occasional army surplus grenade, some home made bombs and maybe even some light artillery, what we would end up with at the end of that march on Washington is 100,000 dead patriots, and an act of aggression that would be played up for all its worth. Think, man.

I am thinking; I was not commenting on the act of marching itself, but on the reasons given by the poster why it would be bad, which were along the lines of:
"you'll be taking guns into prohibited places."

If the marching is a foregone assumption, as was that post, then appealing to illegitimate statutes (what people call "laws") is rather stupid.

That said, if you look up-thread (search Sam Adams, IIRC) someone was saying that he basically did the same: taunting the British into gross overreactions to build sympathy for the revolutionaries.

You don't march into Washington except with a modern military force, and you don't try it until you have enough to defeat what Washington will throw at you, or, preferably, have already defeated its armies. If we ever got to the point where people were taking up arms, as posited, they would only be effective if they were organized into a force sufficient to gain US Army adherents, military hardware and territory to operate from. Hopefully, the feral government armies will fade away and join the army of the Patriots and the march into Washingon, when it comes, will be a triumphant parade with drums beating, fifes playing and joyous celebration. But if that doesn't materialize, if the socialist state is able to maintain a fighting force that has a good chunk of the current military power and, more importantly, hardware, then it may be more judicious to leave the commies alone in their hell holes, form our own forces, and demand to go our separate ways. A divorce. If attacked, we can then defend our own territory. Would be nice to get hold of a few of those nukes in Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota. The commie state will collapse at some point anyway, so what do we care what they do, we just don't want to be part of it, and I for one, don't want to have armies enter their territory and fight a war on American soil to force people to live under our Constitution. Let them create a new one; just reading it would be good for a laugh.

"Don't try until you're sure you can win" combines really well with "you'll never be able to organize an effective resistance" for discouraging resistance to tyranny.

There is always hope that the Constitution still works, that there is time to fix this, that the elections in 2014 will go favorably, that a President Cruz will begin the road back to Constitutional rule, free markets will be restored, growth will help keep the debt from imploding the budget, and all will be well with the world. I am still holding out that hope, but truth be told, it is starting to become a long shot.

Yeah... I would bet the GOP elite aren't gonna tolerate anyone who's on the "conservative" side of things... and will push hard against anyone who does.

I was the one who mentioned the example of Adams. Provocateurs have their successes in some circumstances, and I am not against the tactic in principle. I am just saying that the proposed march is not a good use of the tactic, because of who is leading it, and the likelihood that it will backfire.

Remember, patriots controlled the colonial press. They turned what John Adams later proved was a defensive action into the Boston Massacre. A massacre involving only 5 dead. It was therefore effective for propaganda purposes. Suppose we would get the same propaganda mileage today? There is video today, what happened would be shown on TV. How would it look if marchers provoked something and then a few of them were shot at, and mass pandemonium broke out? I'll tell you, it would turn a lot of people off from the message by reason of the way it was delivered. It would be on TV night and day, Tea Party Terrorists running amok on the lawn, next to our national treasures at the Smithsonian, the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorials, at the steps of the Capital. Good luck selling Constitutional rule at that point.

I said nothing about the argument that "you'll be taking guns into prohibited places". Don't know why you even mention it to me. The post of mine, that you responded to, was when I responded to a poster who is frustrated like we all are, and asked the question, "OK, when will it be ok to do an armed march into DC then"? My response was "never". If things get to the point where we want to take up arms against the existing federal government, the way to do it will never, ever be a frontal assault on the District of Columbia. That is just lunacy.

Your Sam Adams provocation would come if the Red States say "enough" and attempt to peacefully follow the Constitution without being subject to federal feudal law any more. The ferals would probably not allow the "divorce" to proceed peacefully. They will commit some atrocity, some act of aggression, that will steel the resolve of those who have chosen to live free, and that will be what we can rally around.

You are putting words in my mouth, and I don't like that. I didn't say "don't try until you can win." I said "don't attack Washington in a suicide mission". My view is that you come up with a strategy that permits you to prevail, then implement. Marching armed on Washington in response to some outrage is not a strategy, it is just blind rage that will not end well. The future belongs to those who think. The marxists have been pursuing a strategy for 150 years, and it is coming to fruition. They have been patient, clever at times, plain evil and willing to do whatever it takes to win. We will have to be smarter than armed marches on DC to get rid of their threat.

The Second Amendment does protect against tyranny, but not in the sense of allowing the citizens the ability to march on Washington and take it back. Maybe it might have been possible 200 years ago, but not in the era of helicopter gunships, drones, gps artillery, machine guns, bulletproof vests, rpg's, etc. etc. We can't win a battle, but we can resist, in guerrilla fashion, and that ability to resist is what helps keep the government in check. That is why they want to disarm us, not because they are worried about us militarily, but so that when they send an agent to your house to take it away or to take your children, or to take you away, they won't be facing a sniper from the woods. Gun deaths in the inner city don't harm them, but if their agents are not safe in the hinterlands, they can't impose their control as well as they would like. If we ever lost the war, and tyranny was imposed, that would be plan c.

Besides being a certified leftwing nutcase, he will give the left the example they are looking for to ban weapons. See the 2010 Michelle Malkin article at the link:

Adam Kokesh: An anti-war smear merchant in “Republican” clothing

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Another thought on the idea of marching on Washington with the idea of throwing the bums out: Robert E. Lee had a stronger army than we could ever hope to muster, in relative terms with respect to the army of the North. Did Robert E. Lee ever attempt a frontal assault on DC? No, he tried to defeat its armies, or to wear down its people with heavy casualties, so that they would decide to leave the South alone. He needed to win at Gettysberg, to destroy the US army, and then he might have been able to march into DC. What makes you think that armed people marching on DC to "throw the bums out" would be treated any differently than an armed force intent on overthrow?

Before we get to that point where we go to full blown war, with 500,000 Americans dead, I would prefer to just let them go to hell on their own. I don't hate any Americans, even liberals. Some of them are even Cardinals fans. 98 percent of the idiots who live in places like DC and NY are decent Americans, they are just deluded and they have been miseducated. It is the 2 percent of evil true believers who have caused the most mischief. Eventually, when socialism collapses of its own stupidity, the liberals might even come back to the fold, and the Union might be restored.

So, to reiterate: For citizens to march armed on DC as a protest is a dumb idea right now. To march armed on DC with the intent of taking over the government is stupid anytime.

Many on here and others out here will never see freedom in the future. If it weren’t for our founder’s and our ancestors, we wouldn’t exist as we are today, even though we have limited liberty now. Government tyranny is strong and well here and socialism and authoritarianism is firm within the government the bureaucratic police forces. We have to start making stands as what this march is doing because we have the legal RIGHT and moral duty to do so for our country. This isn’t about guns, this is about freedom and liberty. When voting doesn’t work anymore and bureaucrat’s get more powerful and government is so big where states propose sending police into your homes to “inspect for illegal weapons” (and that’s just a taste of what’s been going on and what’s been proposed thus far), you have a runaway train of violators in government and the bureaucratic police officers aren’t no better usually. They’re in fact worse since they’re the ones who actively in your face violate your rights.

I found this on a search for “AK”

A Vietnam Veteran Speaks Out

Adam Kokesh, candidate for the Republican nomination for the US House of Representatives from the Third District of New Mexico, is doing his best to deceive the electorate. He portrays himself as a libertarian conservative, but he is neither libertarian nor conservative (unless he reinvents himself again). Most egregiously, he is attempting to portray himself as a patriotic anti-war/anti-military veteran in a manner reminiscent of John Kerry and Vietnam Veterans against the War (VVAW), in which Kerry tarnished the valor of his brothers-in-arms in order to advance his political career.

As did VVAW, Kokesh’s Iraq Veterans against the War (IVAW) holds that America is an imperialistic country, that the military is merely a tool of the government, and that our soldiers are little more than marauders and murderers who, in the words of John Kerry, behave ‘’in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan.’’

I first met Adam when he and a motley group of Code Pink, MoveOn.org, IVAW (Iraq Veterans against the War), and other ‘’representatives’’ of radical anti-American organizations formed up in front of the Army recruiting station in Washington, DC. Their clear intent was to create a disturbance, but the presence of a few dozen Gathering of Eagles members caused them to reconsider their plans.

I approached Adam and struck up a conversation, during the course of which I learned that he considered himself to be a libertarian. I replied that I considered myself a libertarian, as well, and that perhaps we could agree to disagree on the specific issue of the Iraq war. He seemed amenable to that, but his group reconvened in front of the recruiting station a few weeks later and trashed the place. It was then that I realized that the Adam Kokeshes of the world cannot be relied upon to compromise.

The next time I encountered Adam was last summer at an economic conference in St. Louis. That was when I first learned that he was running for Congress. He presided over a “promote Kokesh” seminar that I attended. He spouted off a basic libertarian message without including any of his own biography, which is, to say the least, nasty. Significantly, he claimed to have been honorably discharged as a sergeant from the US Marine Corps. Both claims are false, as will be demonstrated below.

Adam Kokesh is, in my view, a traitor to his country, and certainly to the United States Marine Corps, in which he “served” as a reservist for several months in a civil affairs unit in Iraq. Upon returning to the States, he enrolled in Claremont McKenna College in California.

While at Clarement McKenna, a pistol was stolen from his car, and Adam dutifully reported the theft to the campus police, who asked him where the pistol came from. Adam said that it was a war souvenir from Iraq, and it was not long before the USMC brought charges against him for smuggling an illegal weapon into the US. His then-pending discharge as a sergeant was changed to that of a corporal.

Adam just didn’t know when to let well-enough alone, because in 2007 he was involved in a street demonstration in DC in which several anti-war protesters were arrested. It seems that he was involved in a bit of street theater in which he led a “combat patrol,” in uniform, to protest the Iraq War. This event was sufficient newsworthy as to cause the Marine Corps to investigate Adam’s involvement in what was obviously an unpatriotic act.

It seems that when the Marine major assigned the investigation contacted Adam by e-mail, Adam replied with a “f__k yourself,” and the Corps thereupon initiated proceedings that resulted in his having his theretofore-honorable discharge downgraded to a general discharge.

Adam then continued to drive nails into his political coffin, as evinced by his visit to the US Army Garrison in Ansbach, Germany. His actions there were, by any measure, seditious, if not downright treasonous. In his own words, Kokesh imparted the following message to our troops:

“We are here to reach out to active duty members of the United States military stationed in Germany and let them know what they can do to help stop the US occupation of Iraq. Soldiers need to know that when they decide to resist, they will have the support and thanks of the global moral majority. We are also here to support the German peace movement. As in the United States, protestors are often dismissed as ignorant and childish, but with the voices of veterans backing them up, they have the credibility they deserve. It is clear that real change will not come from your government or ours, but rather from the righteous voice of compassion.”

“The people of Ansbach have chosen to stand up not only to the imperialism of the United States, but also their own country’s history of complicity. The US military has long chosen its own tactical advantage over the consideration of the people in the communities that it affects and claims to protect. It is sad that it has taken so long for Germans to make this stand, but we support them in their opposition.”

“Germany has long been complicit in America’s aggression. There is no longer any valid premise for the vast American presence in this country. It is not for your security or benefit, but supposedly for the benefit of America, and it is not in the world’s best interest. The lesson of World War II should not be to remain silent during the next war of aggression.” [Adam Kokesh; May 13, 2007; US Army Garrison, Ansbach, Germany]

A complete account may be viewed here.

His personal report is here.

Adam Kokesh probably wishes that he had not been so open about his disloyalty, because he is now pretending to be a patriotic, libertarian-leaning, conservative Republican in his congressional campaign. Sorry, Adam; that just won’t wash. You have shown your true colors, and America-loving patriots just won’t let you get away with your masquerade.

Go ahead and renew your ties with the Code Pink/Winter Soldier/George Soros/IVAW crowd. Take off that suit and tie, and let your hair grow long in a John Kerry-lookalike manner. Be what you want to be, as long as it’s not pretending to be an American patriot.

Larry Bailey
Captain (SEAL), USN (Ret.)
Chocowinity, NC
American Patriots Against Kokesh

"This stunt is beyond stupid. "

Right. We have an elected government, not a 3rd world gun barrel government. Election losers have gone nuts telling they have been screwed. I like this country, warts and all. You got Obama because you tried to foist McCain and Romney and a job-exporting trade policy on the voters and it didn't work. Win the fing election next time and stop moaning. Be an American.