Posted on 04/21/2013 4:40:36 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
It would have been excellent had Joker not been able to drive away. But he did, and there was no changing that. Once the police got to the neighborhood, what could they have done differently?
Ditto. The house to house search was unnecessary as proven by events. Not to mention your hypothetical hostage situation which ends with dead hostages and perp and maybe a dead cop since house to house is extremely risky.
The reality of the situation is that Joker did drive away, and he led the police to a neighborhood in Watertown
Wrong. There was no pursuit, they lost him. Searching specific houses is legitimate only in hot pursuit.
A private citizen told the LEO’s where the criminal was. Please re=read the first sentence in my response. How could a person elude officers with the presence that they had?
“I saw nary a “tracker dog” all day”
Maybe they feared that over-zealous policemen, who were full of adrenaline, would shoot the dogs? ;-)
Probably right ....
At some point, they found the abandoned hijacked SUV, and they picked up a blood trail and they knew he was on foot.
I have no theory on why he was able to stay hidden with that massive presence, but he did. That being said, they had to see him to shoot him. And they didn’t see him until after they were closing the operation, and only then after the citizen reported seeing him in the boat.
Hindsight proves that to be true. But the police did not have a visual on him they had to make decisions based on the best information they had.
The police DO know that many fleeing fugitives WILL enter a house and take hostages. Sometimes, like Christopher Dorner, they will bind and gag them and steal their car.
Uh, incompetence?
Joker was in the area and was hiding.
The police kept him in the area because of their massive presence, but they couldn't see him. Not being able to see him, they couldn't know for sure if he had entered a home in the area, and the only way to know is to go house to house and contact the residents.
When night approached, they police decided to leave.
Then the citizen spotted Joker.
If the police had not had the numbers in the area, they would not have subsequently captured Joker.
So far, I have not seen a satisfactory answer about what they could have done differently.
Wrong again. They had 9000 cops in the area. They violated the 4th all day long then held a news conference and stood down to a fraction of that number (officially they said Watertown plus an equal number of state troopers but they probably had more). It was at that point that the citizen called 911.
"Wrong again. They had 9000 cops in the area. They violated the 4th all day long then held a news conference and stood down to a fraction of that number (officially they said Watertown plus an equal number of state troopers but they probably had more). It was at that point that the citizen called 911."
If the police were there all day, then so was Joker. He did not get out of their perimeter. When they stood down to a fraction of their numbers, Joker was still there because of the prior actions of the larger number of officers. Then the 911 call came in. And then he was arrested.
What Joker was facing was, obviously, a huge police presence. Some stood guard on the perimeter. Some went door to door contacting the citizens. Some were on the ground searching the area, and some were in the air. Joker couldn't move freely, so at some point he simply hid. The police got a break when the boat owner went out to get some fresh air. Luck played a part in this, as it does sometimes in other incidents. And now, Joker is in custody.
What I am waiting to see is a good diagram depicting where they picked up his trail, and where he was finally located.
The police got a break when the boat owner went out to get some fresh air.
Wong yet again. The homeowner was forced to stay in and it would have been over early AM if people had been free to move about and inspect their property. Instead they shut down a city and violated everyone's 4th amendment rights (i.e. confiscated weapons). They were hot in hot pursuit but lost the suspect in an area.
What I am waiting to see is a good diagram depicting where they picked up his trail, and where he was finally located.
From http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/metro/Watertown-homeowner-discovers-bombing-suspect-in-backyard-boat/-/11971628/19830042/-/gyw2ql/-/index.html "The boat is located about 3,000 feet from where a police chase with Tsarnaev and his 26-year-old brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, ended late Thursday night."
From a tactical standpoint a perimeter search of all vehicles makes much more sense. The suspect as driver would be dead meat. Suspect holding a driver hostage would probably result in the death of the hostage. But it is almost certain that a suspect defending a house with hostages and bombs would succeed in killing the hostages and probably wound or kill police doing that kind of search.
>>With respects to Mr. Deninnger, what could the police have done differently to catch Joker?
They should have been on a watch list and been visited to get checked on within a day of the bombing. Given the older brother’s history, this is not unreasonable.
Just to add to the list of FBI/DHS/local LEO FAIL.
What the heck happened to the other thread (the one where a couple posters thought that house-to-house searches were ok?)
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