Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: PeaRidge
PeaRidge: "You set up a strawman argument by suggesting that a set of unofficial documents proved anything more being commentary."

The Declarations of Reasons for Secession listed in post #365 above are all Official Documents, approved by their respective State Secession Conventions.
Read them.

So what, exactly, is your problem with that?

PeaRidge: "And the point is that secession had its own causes, but Lincoln's invasion had its causes also....quite different from each other."

Agreed.
First, seven Deep South states seceded and started war to protect slavery from "Black Republican" abolitionists, and from just-elected President Lincoln.

Second, four Upper South states only joined in rebellion after the Confederacy had already started and declared, or "recognized", war on the United States.

Third, after Fort Sumter's surrender, in April 1861 President Lincoln called up state militias to:

  1. Defeat the military power which had started and declared war on the United States, to
  2. Restore the Union under its Constitution, and eventually, to
  3. Destroy the "peculiar institution" of slavery.

PeaRidge: "Go ahead and quote what you want but exclusion proves nothing."

Say what?

375 posted on 04/09/2013 4:44:36 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 371 | View Replies ]


To: BroJoeK; PeaRidge

Pea is like the guy in the Monty Python argument sketch who believes that argument consists solely of saying “No, it isn’t.”


376 posted on 04/09/2013 5:18:24 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 375 | View Replies ]

To: BroJoeK
Here is the problem:

Your exact comment from #310: “First of all, if you think the Morrill Tariff had anything to do with Deep South declarations of secession, then I'd challenge you to quote any of their Declarations of Reasons for Secession which say as much.”

As I have said twice, you set up a strawman argument by suggesting that a set of unofficial documents proved anything more than being commentary.

And as I said, go ahead and quote what you want but exclusion proves nothing.

379 posted on 04/10/2013 1:14:53 PM PDT by PeaRidge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 375 | View Replies ]

To: BroJoeK; Bubba Ho-Tep; rustbucket
To the issue of the importance of the tariff to Southern states, on the contrary, it was much more important to Northern politicians as pointed out by Senator Clingman, NC, in March of 1861.

"I think, if you have no custom-house between Louisiana and the Upper Mississippi, merchants up there will come down and buy their goods at New Orleans. If they learn that at New York they can buy goods under a tariff of fifty percent., and that they can buy them at New Orleans under a tariff of only one third that, they will go down to New Orleans; and the result will be that we shall get very little revenue under the existing system. We may bandy witticisms; we may show our adroitness in debate; but this is a question which we have to look at practically. One of two things must be done: either you must prevent imports into those States, which I do not think you can do; and I do not suppose there is a Senator on this floor who believes that, under the existing laws, the President has authority to do it; or you must call Congress together, and invest him with some authority. If you do not do that, you must establish a line of custom houses on the border."

In other words, Clingman said the southern tariff undermined the Union tariff, therefore the Lincoln government would go to war.

How does this work? The importer who pays the duties may not be able to sell his imported goods at all (or may be forced to discount them) if Southern domestic goods are available at a lower price

If that becomes the case, the recipient of the imported goods will cease acquiring them due to the losses they cause him to incur by their uncompetitiveness with protected domestic prices. When that happens, trade stops.

The Morrill or protectionist tariff was by definition a barrier to trade.

The Morrill Tariff was not a relatively small burden by any reasonable standard. Some predicted average rates would reach about 45%, which they did.

Speeches such as Clingman's above indicate that the tariff would devastate the Union treasury.The fact is the tariff issue was there. They made speeches about it, drafted resolutions about it, and denounced it in their newspapers.

You have made several comments about the timing of Morrill and secession, as well as one about the fact that the South could have defeated it had the Congressmen stayed in Washington.

It passed the House in May 1860 and gained a supportive voice as the heir to the White House that November, all before a single one of them seceded. The only thing left was the Senate, and, by their own calculations of December 12th, 1860, the southerners knew they did not have the votes to stop it there.



398 posted on 04/12/2013 2:48:38 PM PDT by PeaRidge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 375 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson