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Supreme Court issues major copyright ruling on foreign sales
la times ^ | 3/19/2013 | David Savage

Posted on 03/19/2013 9:28:39 AM PDT by tobyhill

Edited on 03/19/2013 9:29:28 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

The Supreme Court, in a major ruling on copyright law, has given foreign buyers of textbooks, movies and other products a right to resell them in the United States without the permission of the copyright owner. The 6-3 decision is a victory for a former USC student from Thailand, Supap Kirtsaeng, who figured he could earn money by buying textbooks at lower costs in his native country and selling them in the United States.


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
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To: lastchance
“So it's illegal to copy a DVD? Interestingly, no. Judges have said that consumers have a right to copy a DVD for their own use—say, for backing it up to another disk or perhaps watching it on another device, such as an iPod. That's the same “fair use” rule that made it legal to tape television shows for watching later, perhaps on a different TV. The problem is that consumers can't duplicate DVDs without software tools that get around the copy protection on those disks. It is those tools that Congress outlawed.

Is it still legal to copy a CD? The same fair use doctrine allows consumers to copy their music disks to computers and other devices. Because CDs don't have anything to protect them from being copied, it's also legal to distribute software for “ripping” them to a PC’s hard drive. The ripping software doesn't have to circumvent any anticopy protections.”

http://money.usnews.com/money/business-economy/technology/articles/2009/09/30/is-it-legal-to-copy-a-dvd

Now prove I didn't own it and didn't have the legal right to sell it.

41 posted on 03/19/2013 11:14:33 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

And this case highlights the fact that US compannies (with or without copyright involvement) sell the same product much cheaper in many foreign nations than in the US. Again, it’s pricing at what the market will bear. If they didn’t do that, they’d sell little in many poorer nations. But US consumers are definitely subsizing those lower priced foreign sales. Probably nothing to be done about that.

But I’m with the dissenters when it comes to importing into the US and reselling. At some point people doing that are definitely in the import business and then also in the retail business in the US. I’m sure there’s a business solution to the problem if it becomes too large.


42 posted on 03/19/2013 11:15:02 AM PDT by Will88
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To: tobyhill

I dunno,

Microsoft has a pretty good way of protecting copyrighted material. Companies are going to have to use technology to protect its copyrights.

And I’m not sure how this ruling changes the ability of law enforcement to enforce copyright protections. It was poor before, and it’s still poor. “Joe Blow gave me his copy that he made after he legally downloaded it off the internet” was an illegal, but unenforcable, transaction before the ruling - and it still is.


43 posted on 03/19/2013 11:17:19 AM PDT by kidd
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To: lastchance

No one will ever be able to prove if a copy was pirated or not.

What if someone legally downloads an MP3 at 99 cents a song and then resells it for 10 cents a song? Is that legal?


44 posted on 03/19/2013 11:19:00 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

No they didn’t, and no they can’t.

Read the opinion.


45 posted on 03/19/2013 11:20:15 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: tobyhill

I predict down the road during a political campaign they will magically come up with information that a candidate illegally downloaded something in their past.


46 posted on 03/19/2013 11:20:50 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: green iguana
“We hold that the first-sale doctrine applies to copies of a copyrighted work lawfully made abroad,” writes Breyer, who later adds that it is not surprising that for at least a century the “first sale” doctrine has played an important role in American copyright law.”

Yes they did and this is the courts opinion.

47 posted on 03/19/2013 11:26:57 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: kidd

What it changes is bearing of proof. Before law enforcement could prosecute based on just having an illegal copy but now they have to prove that the copy is illegal.


48 posted on 03/19/2013 11:30:39 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: kidd
If the free market is allowed to operate freely, then the campus book store will start getting its books from the foreign sources directly.

Internationally, the free market is not allowed to operate and it never will be. Too many local interests that are and often should be protected.

The copyright holder in this case will probably work something out with its foreign distributors restricting who they can sell to, or how many copies can be purchased by individuals not in the book business in that nation. Unless it's really a large scale problem, they probably wouldn't change pricing in the foreign counry.

The information in this case doesn't tell us how large scale this was. The copyright holder might have just been trying to nip something in the bud.

49 posted on 03/19/2013 11:30:57 AM PDT by Will88
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To: lastchance
There was never any question that the textbooks were indeed lawfully made.

Indeed. But the issue that the dissent raises, which is a valid one, is that the textbooks were not lawfully made under the Copyright Act. And they were not lawfully made under the Copyright Act because the Copyright Act does not apply in foreign countries. How can a work be lawfully made under the Copyright Act when it is not subject to the Copyright Act?

50 posted on 03/19/2013 11:38:25 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Will88
The information in this case doesn't tell us how large scale this was 600 copies. It's in the opinion.
51 posted on 03/19/2013 11:41:07 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Publius Valerius

Exactly and that’s why there can not be enforcement of copyright laws with items being brought here to be resold because there’s no way to tell if something is lawfully made from a different country.


52 posted on 03/19/2013 11:50:06 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

Sure there is. The first sale doctrine is limited in scope. The 9th Circuit, in a well reasoned opinion, has already held that the first sale doctrine does not apply to licensed software, and the Copyright Office has taken the position that the first sale doctrine applies only to physical materials—no application to digital. This approach seems rational and will likely be adopted by the courts.

So, putting all of this together, the question is pretty simple? Did you buy the book/movie from an authorized reseller? Are you selling that same copy in the US? If so, then you are OK. If not, then you’ve got a problem.

I will say, though, that I think the dissent gets the better of the argument. But I don’t think the opinion presents the policy risks that you propose.


53 posted on 03/19/2013 11:57:43 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Publius Valerius
“We hold that the first-sale doctrine applies to copies of a copyrighted work lawfully made abroad,” writes Breyer, who later adds that it is not surprising that for at least a century the “first sale” doctrine has played an important role in American copyright law.”

Whom is to say “lawfully made” in another country?

54 posted on 03/19/2013 12:04:20 PM PDT by tobyhill
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To: Publius Valerius
I believe this ruling will also negate the 9th Circuit and the Copyright Offices position that first sale doesn't apply to digital material.

Digital material is something that is purchased so why would resale be different?

55 posted on 03/19/2013 12:11:58 PM PDT by tobyhill
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To: lastchance

Shazam and Golly,wish Iz as smart as you.........


56 posted on 03/19/2013 12:17:03 PM PDT by CGASMIA68
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To: tobyhill

I should have clarified. It is illegal to copy a DVD you don’t own. I was thinking of those who copy from online sources. Sorry I had meant to make that point.


57 posted on 03/19/2013 12:18:58 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: Publius Valerius
The information in this case doesn't tell us how large scale this was 600 copies. It's in the opinion.

Failry large scale if done by one person.

Few are going to go read a court opinion, which can be very long. When someone posts a thread, they should summarize the pertinent information in the first comment. The LA Times article was also pretty skimpy on pertinent information.

58 posted on 03/19/2013 12:21:47 PM PDT by Will88
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To: tobyhill

No they didn’t. “Copies” refers to an original copy of the work that the copyright holder sold overseas (on a first-sale basis), not a copy of the work that a purchaser made of that original.


59 posted on 03/19/2013 12:38:25 PM PDT by green iguana
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To: t1b8zs

Well you certainly are no dumber than me.


60 posted on 03/19/2013 12:40:47 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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