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To: chip.litch

I think church discipline is lacking in all the denominations, largely because people have bought into the post-modern worldview that we make our own reality and determine for ourselves what is right and wrong.

The tax-exempt status has also been used to quiet Christians in the pulpits. Jeremiah Wright and his ilk can talk politics all they want because they know that nobody would have the guts to take away the tax-exempt status of their “church”. But if somebody actually preaches the BIBLE and applies it to the left-hand kingdom (secular government), they would be targeted. So they separate Christianity from public policy and the determinations of what makes for peaceful coexistence and prosperity.

My husband is a Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod pastor. We’re in a liberal place (unbelievable that this place in Nebraska is more liberal than where we had been previously in Minnesota!) Shortly before the 2008 election I mentioned in Bible study that Satan is a liar, and uses lies in ALL realms of life in order to try to undo what God has said. For instance, communism is a denial of the right of ownership (the seventh commandment, as Lutherans number the commandments). Abortion is a denial of the sanctity of human life (the fifth commandment). Homosexual marriage is a denial of the sanctity of marriage (sixth commandment). Etc. We have the “separation of church and state” and think that the church can’t say anything about politics, but Satan through “politics” and by our supposed inability to touch “politics” is snuffing out the ten commandments and the authority of God to be Lord over these issues, in the minds of LOTS of people who call themselves “Christians” but don’t even recognize that what they believe follows the god of politics and NOT the God of the Bible.

Two of the members said we shouldn’t be talking about this in church and walked out in a huff. The next week the leader said we won’t talk about “politics”. Totally missed the point. God doesn’t back off of a subject just because WE call it “politics” and label it “untouchable”. And Satan doesn’t back off of a subject just because WE call it “church”. If God is not welcome in the discussion of “redistribution of wealth”, abortion, homosexual marriage, etc, then it is WE who are moving away from Him, and it doesn’t matter what excuse we use in order to do it. But in the church there is no excuse for it. We must obey God, not men.


80 posted on 03/13/2013 7:00:42 PM PDT by butterdezillion (,)
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To: butterdezillion

Great post. I fully agree with you-—especially about the tax exempt status. There is such a double standard. I frankly don’t see how to separate world views and political beliefs from beliefs about God. It all comes together at some point and any attempt at compartmentalizing is phoney and unnatural. The only people who want God out of politics and everyday life are those who do not want to submit to His authority over all things.


81 posted on 03/13/2013 7:26:43 PM PDT by Faith
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To: butterdezillion
Good for you! We need more people willing to take a stand against the secularization of everything. In reality, ALL issues are moral issues and you sure nailed it by showing how Satan perverts everything that God creates. The lack of discipline in many churches is due to the lack of discipline in individual lives. What happens personally filters up to the collective. Unless those in leadership positions within the church stand up for God's righteous commands, exhibit righteousness in their own lives and those of their families, their faith communities won't be able to. The two members who walked out and the leader who wrongly labeled the topic as "political" are examples of those who demonstrate a lack of discipline in their own lives.

I hope you were able to sit down and discuss this with that leader and he/she was open to hearing it. Our society is in the shape it is right now because too many people either don't care anymore or they are too afraid to take a stand. Such behavior is a death knell for ANY church. Sometimes they need shaking out to get rid of the clingers who come out of obligation instead of a desire to edify each other and worship together in truth. Maybe God put you there for just that reason!

91 posted on 03/13/2013 10:18:04 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: butterdezillion

Excellent point.

I’m very excited about the new Pope.


92 posted on 03/14/2013 1:49:26 AM PDT by nikos1121
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