Rand Paul: GOP must 'evolve' on immigration

www.politico.com ^ | 01/13/2013 | Kevin Cirilli

[SoConPubbie]

Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Wednesday that Republicans must “evolve” on immigration while preventing America from becoming a magnet for immigrants to come and get benefits.

We cannot just be a beacon for everyone to come here on benefits,” Paul said on conservative commentator Bryan Fischer’s radio program Wednesday. “You can’t have open borders in a welfare state. We’ve got a pretty significant welfare state, so it’s not just about normalizing the 11 or 12 million here, it’s whether or not while you’re doing that another 11 or 12 million come in, and I think that will bankrupt the country,” Paul said.

"My proposal is that each year we vote on a report [on border security]… so each year if we’re going to normalize some of the people who are undocumented here, it is dependent on a vote on the border security that affirms that we are securing the border.”

[Jack Black]

“You can’t have open borders in a welfare state.”

And, we have the welfare state. And while many of us, and Rand presumably, would like to eliminate the Welfare State that isn’t going to happen.

So what is left as a plausible solution is closing the borders and essentially ending immigration, particularly of people who are going to take more than they give. (Which statistics tell us is *most* of current immigrants)

I also agree with the comments made here that Libertarians don’t put enough emphasis on conserving tradition and culture. They are sort of the polar opposite of Marxists, both reduce man to homo-economicus, man the econonmic unit. To the Marxist collectivist economics solves all social problems. To the libertarian, free market economics solves all problems.

The truth is that there are many realms outside of economics that need to be attended to if one is going to have a healthy society.

[dfwgator]

All he has to do is say that we want the same controls on our border that the Mexicans have on theirs’.

Who could argue with that?

[itsahoot]

Why should it be an employer’s responsibility to enforce immigration laws?

They might have a clue if the guy they are hiring doesn’t speak a word of English.

[Arrowhead1952]

Stop giving them free sh*t and they'll go home.

That is the way I think too. Get rid of the freebies and they will self deport. Especially since Mexico has a lower unemployment rate that we have here.

[oldbill]

Better do your research - you are wrong.

[Tennessee Nana]

Kid I have been known to be wrong on the rare occaison...

But I’m not wrong about Willard’s Amnesty Bill lovin ways...

Willard also hired illegal aliens knowing he was breaking the law...

oh noez...

[B4Ranch]

It takes a long time before good ideas are acknowledged.

But the real problem is the business world wants uneducated, low cost workers and the Mexicans fill their bill. The NEA is doing the best they can to dumb down the American students just in case immigration doesn’t pass in Congress.

[SoConPubbie]

Better do your research - you are wrong.

Does it really matter with Mitt?

This is the same Mitt who said in January '12 at CPAC he had always been Pro-Life, then in August of '12, after winning the Primaries, stated he was for Abortion in cases of Rape, Incest, Life, and Health of the mother as he had always been.

Anything that Mitt Romney states is a calculated lie and he has already taken the opposite position somewhere in his recent past.

Why any thinking conservative would take Mitt Romney at his word about anything conservative given his ACTUAL Progressive Liberal past is beyond me.

[SoConPubbie]

So what is left as a plausible solution is closing the borders and essentially ending immigration, particularly of people who are going to take more than they give. (Which statistics tell us is *most* of current immigrants)

So, Rand Paul's plan to give Amnesty to 2 million Illegals(A.K.A. Democrat Voters) each and every year is a plausible solution?

You do realize you are on a conservative website devoted to conservative principles including NO AMNESTY for illegal Aliens?

[SoConPubbie]

EXACTLY! We WILL have an amnesty, people, time to face that fact. I’d trust Paul to cut off the magnets and enforce the law before the others.

i IF, what you are saying is true, then we either need to give up right now or start the fight right now.

Rand Paul, you, I and every other thinking person know there are least 2x the 10-11 million Illegals present in the country right now and probably more like 3x times.

That is approximately 20million+ Democrat Voters since all they have ever known is dependency on the Government teat and giving them Amnesty won't change that anymore than the Reagan Amnesty engendered in those new citizens enough gratitude to vote in sizable proportions for Republicans after '86.

So, if you really want to destroy the GOP, and therefore the country, then Rand Paul's plan to give Amnesty to 2 million Illegals will accomplish this very quickly.

[sickoflibs]

RE :”That is approximately 20million+ Democrat Voters since all they have ever known is dependency on the Government teat and giving them Amnesty won't change that anymore than the Reagan Amnesty engendered in those new citizens enough gratitude to vote in sizable proportions for Republicans after ‘86.
So, if you really want to destroy the GOP, and therefore the country, then Rand Paul's plan to give Amnesty to 2 million Illegals will accomplish this very quickly. “

I wouldnt even call it ba ‘plan’. It just looks like standard talking points that plays both sides.

Its very similar to the McCain/Rubio talking points except he adds in the part about illegals coming here for benefits so we will like him anyway.

Rubio claims they cant get benefits for 10 years to get the permanent normalization(imagine the loop-holes they would put in that) , I would add that they have to be earning and paying above some minimum federal tax bracket (say the $50K after deductions) too for the 10 years too.

If they are in a tax bracket that pays zero Federal income taxes then we know where that is going.

[BillGunn]

Why should it be an employer’s responsibility to enforce immigration laws? They might have a clue if the guy they are hiring doesn’t speak a word of English.

That becomes a business decision! My sister's father in law was a legal immigrant from Portugal, he worked hard all his life, but he could hardly speak English, his kids do speak English.

But none of this answers the question asked, "Why should it be an employer’s responsibility to enforce immigration laws?".

[skeeter]

Is there the slightest chance that normalizing these people will not eventually happen? If so, please let me know how you see it playing out, because frankly I’ve lost all hope that anyone in DC will do the right thing here.

[itsahoot]

"Why should it be an employer’s responsibility to enforce immigration laws?".

Refusing to hire an illegal is not enforcing the immigration laws. I suspect you know someone that has illegals working for them. It is a moral issue at the very least.

[SoConPubbie]

Is there the slightest chance that normalizing these people will not eventually happen? If so, please let me know how you see it playing out, because frankly I’ve lost all hope that anyone in DC will do the right thing here.

I don't know.

I do know that I never compromise on an important issue like this because either I, or someone else thinks it is going to eventually fail.

I know the founders of this great country did not have this attitude either or they never would have engaged the greatest military force in their time with the ragged and small military they had at their disposal at that time.

[skeeter]

I do know that I never compromise on an important issue like this because either I, or someone else thinks it is going to eventually fail.

Laudable. When DC calls me for advise I will also refuse to compromise.

[BillGunn]

"Why should it be an employer’s responsibility to enforce immigration laws?". Refusing to hire an illegal is not enforcing the immigration laws. I suspect you know someone that has illegals working for them. It is a moral issue at the very least.

I am in the construction industry, so it goes without saying that I know someone that has illegals working for them. Most people do know someone that has illegals working for them. That is really a useless point of information.

I agree the decision to hire someone that one suspects or knows is an illegal is a moral issue; but that does not mean that the obligation should be put on employers to assure the legal status of their employees. If the employee can present sufficient documentation to allow the employer to pay taxes on behalf of the employee (another thing that should not be an employers responsibility), then his/her obligation should be considered complete.

Employers are not and should not be considered obliged to be bookkeepers or enforcement officials for the government.

[central_va]

Any construction firm that needs to hire illegals as part of their business model should just go out of business. If their margins are that tight then it is NOT a well run organization.

[BillGunn]

"Why should it be an employer’s responsibility to enforce immigration laws?". Refusing to hire an illegal is not enforcing the immigration laws. I suspect you know someone that has illegals working for them. It is a moral issue at the very least.

I am in the construction industry, so it goes without saying that I know someone that has illegals working for them. Most people do know someone that has illegals working for them. That is really a useless point of information.

I agree the decision to hire someone that one suspects or knows is an illegal is a moral issue; but that does not mean that the obligation should be put on employers to assure the legal status of their employees. If the employee can present sufficient documentation to allow the employer to pay taxes on behalf of the employee (another thing that should not be an employers responsibility), then his/her obligation should be considered complete.

Employers are not and should not be considered obliged to be bookkeepers or enforcement officials for the government.

[BillGunn]

Any construction firm that needs to hire illegals as part of their business model should just go out of business. If their margins are that tight then it is NOT a well run organization.

Maybe you are right and maybe not; but that still does not answer the question, "why should business owners be responsible to ensure anyone's residency status?"