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To: BroJoeK
So this union we are in, are you proud of it today? Is it fair that the most of the union is diametrically opposed to the other half? And because Lincoln killed states rights we have NATIONALIZED every political issue that should have been handled locally. So I ask again, are you proud?

While just an intellectual game, it is my supposition if you could bring back the founders and after studying history that they missed for 200 years, they would be, to a man, appalled and would especially have hatred of Lincoln.

655 posted on 03/17/2013 7:01:50 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

Lincoln didn’t “kill states rights”.


656 posted on 03/17/2013 7:04:52 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: central_va

You and I are in agreement, oddly enough, that the death blow dealt to states’ rights by the WBTS and the legacy of Jim Crow is a great tragedy. These two things have to my mind irreparably tainted a concept that could have done a great deal to prevent the expansion of the federal government.

Where I am sure we differ is who bears the responsibility for the disrepute the concept is in with most Americans.


658 posted on 03/17/2013 7:06:11 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: central_va
central_va: "...Lincoln killed states rights we have NATIONALIZED every political issue that should have been handled locally.
So I ask again, are you proud?"

No, but you know very well that Lincoln did nothing more than defeat the military power which started and declared war on the United States.

Everything else that we find so, well, "statist", began 100 years ago, in the "Progressive Era" under Southern Democrat President Woodrow Wilson -- beginning with the 16th & 17th Amendments, plus Federal Reserve.

From President Washington through the beginning of Wilson's administration, the Federal Government consumed roughly 2.5% of GDP, plus whatever it cost to pay for wars.
Since the "Progressive Era" Federal Government has grown steadily to now circa 24% of GDP, and that is before "Obama-care" fully kicks in.

And the Solid Democrat South fully supported "Progressives" -- like Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt, all the way through Adlai Stevenson in 1956.

Then slowly, the South began to realize that all the Federal "redistribution of wealth" was not necessarily intended to benefit them, at which point they first discovered the beauty of Conservative philosophy.

So, if you want to know who is to blame for everything wrong today, don't be pointing at Lincoln.
Look at yourselves in the mirror, FRiend.

716 posted on 03/19/2013 3:58:51 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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