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To: thackney

The molecules in gasoline must come from somewhere. At present they come by taking apart and reassembling the atoms and molecules in hydrocarbon-rich crude oil. However, any source of these atoms and molecules could be used, the main factor is cost.

The truth is that the earth is almost literally awash in hydrocarbons that could be used to make motor vehicle fuels. At present crude oil is, on balance, the least expensive source, but for example the instant that coal or natural gas becomes less expensive on a relative basis, industry would quickly switch sources. We could use switch grass or algae today for a primary source if we were willing to pay $26/gallon for the finished fuel, which the US military does, but only the US government does because it can print money.

It is for this reason that “peak oil” is a specious worry because the only thing that counts is the price of the finished fuel product, not the supply levels of specific sources of the hydrocarbons used to make the fuels. The final price of fuel will reflect not only the cost of the raw materials but also the capital investment and costs of operating the extraction, processing and refining process.

see for example:

Turkey Fuel? Factory to Turn Guts Into Crude Oil
Nicole Davis
for National Geographic News
November 25, 2003

As Americans prepare to gobble down 45 million turkeys on Thursday, a factory in Carthage, Missouri, is turning the feathers and innards of the feted bird into a clean-burning fuel oil. Changing World Technologies (CWT), a New York environmental technology company that is behind the project, also has plans to turn the organic waste from chickens, cows, hogs, onions, and Parmesan cheese into light crude oil—and those are just the some of CWT’s proposed ventures.

The company works such miracles through thermo-depolymerization (TDP), a process by which waste materials are broken down by intensive heat and pressure to produce natural gas, fuel oil, and minerals. The company’s CEO, Brian Appel, says he can turn any type of carbon-based waste—be it computers or offal—into combustible fuel. But he admits many people are skeptical.

...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.html

[The company went bankrupt, not because the process didn’t work, but because the cost of the end product was too far below the market price for its energy value. In short, it exactly proves my point. —tBW]


7 posted on 01/21/2013 6:58:53 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat
...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.html

[The company went bankrupt, not because the process didn’t work, but because the cost of the end product was too far below the market price for its energy value. In short, it exactly proves my point. —tBW]


Or you could say that the product out required too much energy in to make.

So even if the product out is worth more, it would still take more expensive energy to produce it.

A lot of the Obummer “green” projects never looked at the overall energy equations.

15 posted on 01/21/2013 9:34:02 AM PST by az_gila
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To: theBuckwheat
I'm thinking if they could get the production costs down, they might make a go of it. It wasn't just turkeys that could be used, it was ANY organic waste. Being able to process those to oil would certainly go a long way towards reducing the stuff put in landfills.

If the output was a clean enough oil, it could be used in automobiles that have been re-fitted for that purpose. They might like that better than driving around smelling of french fries and chinese food. Of course the biggest issue will be transportation to the consumer, but if that consumer is willing to pay for it, so be it.

21 posted on 01/21/2013 1:58:17 PM PST by SuziQ
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