Pat Buchanan: Why the War Party Fears Hagel

Townhall ^ | 12/28/2012 | Pat Buchanan

[fieldmarshaldj]

Unfortunately, we see more than a few FReepers who revel in their anti-Zionism.

[rmlew]

This past spring Kristol acknowledged that the NeoCons had successfully purged the isolationists such as Paul and PB from the GOP and were moving to purge the Realists, especially the older realists such as Hagel, Scowcroft, Baker, Kissinger, Schultz, Lugar etc.
1. I'm not sure that Hagel is a realist. He and Lugar are liberal internationalists.
2. Why are realist idealogues (so delusional that they believe that theirs is not an ideology) an better than delusional neocons? Both assume a world that does not exist, especially in the middle east.

[rmlew]

Yet (in 2003) Syria, Iran and Iraq were bitter enemies, with their weapons pointed at each other, and the terrorists they sponsor targeted Israel rather than the US. The neocons urged all-out war with Iran next, though by any rational measurement North Korea's new nuclear arsenal is, for the US, a far greater problem. (Michael Lind circa 2003)
Actually, Iraq had ties to Al Qaeda. And the Bushes never forgave Saddam's assassination attempt on President George HW Bush.
Neoconservatives and some of the oil lobby wanted to go after Iraq. Israel didn't come into play, except as a shield for the Oil Lobby to yell "Jew, Jew" and hide their goals. The actual Israelis were and are worried about Iran. And in so far as Iran is a terrorist state, and has promised to destroy the US, we have a clear national security reason to stop their nuclear program.
Chuck Hagel, would rather hope that expositions on "prisoner's dilemma" and other college level "realist" thought games will protect us.

[Impy]

Bork was borked by a rat Senate.

We’d have to fillibuster to stop Kerry or Hagel so that’s a little different.

Frankly I have little interest in stopping Kerry so as to open up his Senate seat for RINO Brown to take.

[Impy]

I noticed there were a couple rambling idiots on this thread, one calling Hagel a “realist”.

Wha’TEVER.

[rmlew]

Yet (in 2003) Syria, Iran and Iraq were bitter enemies, with their weapons pointed at each other, and the terrorists they sponsor targeted Israel rather than the US. The neocons urged all-out war with Iran next, though by any rational measurement North Korea's new nuclear arsenal is, for the US, a far greater problem. (Michael Lind circa 2003)
I forgot to mention something important. Michael Lind is a complete idiot on the Payroll of Soros. Syria and Iran were not bitter enemies in 2003, but allies. And what measures would Lind have us take on North Korea given that the ChiComs protect them, and that even without nukes they can level Seoul. The only thing worse that a delusional ideologue is a soulless political hack like Lind.

[SunkenCiv]

/bingo

[Liz]

Israeli Ambassador Michael Aron recently told CBS’ 60 Minutes that throwing-out Christians from Israel was necessary-—b/c “Israel has to defend its own interests.”

Well, good for them. So when will Americans be allowed to defend our interests-—by staying out of frickin’ Mideast mudholes?

Every two-bit Mideast hellhole puts THEIR interests first—particularly over American interests.

Time to acknowledge over years of savage Mideast history-—every Mideast hellhole is a threat to Americans. These
bullies and savages are collecting trillions of our tax dollars to remake the Mideast into some kind of make-believe LaLa Land.

Americans are struggling survive in Ohaha’s economy——and are paying plenty at the pump, as well as being forced to
pour trillions into these useless mudholes. Our “reward” is violence, killings, and stratospheric gas prices.

Americans are little more than pawns in the trillion dollar Mideast con game.....most of it orchestrated by Cristal-swilling neocons.

The Mideast con job continues—— “victimizaton” is a cottage industry over there-—and is very profitable——trillions of US tax dollars paid out in order for “self-styled victims” to “feel good about themselves.”

The stupid Mideast con artists know where they can put their lack of self-esteem.

[TADSLOS]

The stupid Mideast con artists know where they can put their lack of self-esteem.

Uhhm, 50+ years of pulling a global con hardly makes them stupid. They rely on the mass stupidity of others to keep the con going.

[DoughtyOne]

Your point is correct. It would be different. It would be playing hardball for a change, and that’s the real connection tit for tat.

The dems play hardball, and we’re still playing with a rubber ball painted to look like a hardball.

1. There’s no focus
2. There’s no coordinated effort
3. There’s no agreement on what game we’re playing, or by what rules
4. There’s no determination to win
5. There’s no dedication to win

We’re simply a pee-wee league level team on a professional baseball field facing the New York Yankees.

[Liz]

Yeah——mass stupidity-—you got that right.

[rmlew]

Israeli Ambassador Michael Aron recently told CBS’ 60 Minutes that throwing-out Christians from Israel was necessary-—b/c “Israel has to defend its own interests.”
Because no Palestinian Christian ever helps Jihadis or communists, or Arab Nationalists. Tell that to Robert F Kennedy.

Well, good for them. So when will Americans be allowed to defend our interests-—by staying out of frickin’ Mideast mudholes?
Because we have interests like oil, not letting a Caliphate form, and not allowing Islamists to have nukes to attack us.

Israel is an ally of the US. And no, we should not be giving foreign aid. Buyt your anger and grievance is leading you down a dark and silly path.

[Liz]

.....your anger and grievance is leading you down a dark and silly path....

Oh yeah---that I know.

After all, who can doubt that Mideast policies of the last 50 years have led us to "happily ever after."

Nice to see all the Mideast types weave daisy chains as they dance around the Maypole, isn't it?

[rmlew]

Nice strawman. But have you read anything I have written? Because if you have, and you think I agree with our policies for the last 60 years, you'd best work on reading comprehension.
There are policies other than Neo-Jacobinist Democracy, ignoring ideology, and hunkering down and ignoring the world.
We can contain and seperate the West from Islam http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/012935.html

[Chunga]

Neo-Jacobinist Democracy

Is that you Lew Rockwell? Is that you, Justin Raimondo?

[rmlew]

Chunga,
Is your name "illiterate" in some language? Because I wrote " There are policies other than Neo-Jacobinist Democracy, ignoring ideology, and hunkering down and ignoring the world."
That is to say, I am not supporting isolationism.
What is it with people like you and Liz being unable to imagine a foreign policy other than the strawmen you create?

[okie01]

If you think it “stays there” then you suck at world history where Spain and Indonesia are now considered “muslim territories”.

Er...Indonesia IS "muslim territory".

In fact, it holds the largest Muslim population in the world.

Dear Leader grew up there, remember?

[a fool in paradise]

Once land becomes “muslim territory”, they consider it pwned eternally.

Even the Islamic colony of Dearbornistan poses this problem.

[rmlew]

I call them Neo-Jacobins. They believe in spreading democracy by the sword, just like French Revolutionaries. There used to be sane ones like Jeanine Kirkpatrick running the show. Please see her work “Democracies and Double Standards”. The adults are now dead, and the idiot children run wild.

[dervish]

Add Brennan to that list. He’s the most dangerous of all.