Who Let the Jobs Out? Who is sending jobs overseas

Tea Party Tribune ^ | December 2, 2012 | Joathon Moseley

[khelus]

You know, it’s funny that that the individuals who are involved in shipping jobs overseas complain about the “47%” of people now on the dole, have to now reckon with the fact that those very same people didn’t disappear off of the face of the earth when their jobs were outsourced. Now, they’re faced with have to pay for those people through higher taxes to cover their unemployment and welfare costs, along with subsidizing imported labor legal and illegal. I whole thing reeks of a get rich quick scheme, where the major players are hoping to outrun the impending collapse they’ve initiated, paying off their government cronies, placating the masses, and disappearing somewhere else to start their ponzi scheme again. Sounds like a looting spree to me.

Your astute observation is just one of the arguments against 'Free Trade' as the globalists have set it up.

[khelus]

Can't we at least force the "American" corporations to decide between America and funding the Chinese Communists' Peoples Liberation Army; between lobbying Congress for what's best for America and lobbying for what's best for Red China?

To wit, decide to stay here or move all to Red China. They are going to lose everything anyhow when Deng's version of Lenin's New Economic Policy (NEP) is fully implemented. It's accomplished much of its purpose.. the only things left are to see that there is enough wealth to prevent revolution, take the "useful idiot's" property, and put them on a slow boat to America.

Washington Times, June 27, 2005 Thefts of U.S. Technology Boost China's Weaponry (By Bill Gertz)

Rudy Guerin, a senior FBI counterintelligence official in charge of China affairs, said the Chinese aggressively exploit their connections to U.S. corporations doing business in China. "They go straight to the companies themselves," he said. Many U.S. firms doing business in China, including such giants as Coca-Cola, Boeing and General Motors, use their lobbyists on behalf of Beijing. "We see the Chinese going to these companies to ask them to lobby on their behalf on certain issues," Mr. Guerin said, "whether it's most-favored-nation trade status, [World Health Organization], Falun Gong or other matters."

Washington Times article by Bill Gertz in the Congressional Record, submitted by Rep. Frank Wolk

Thanks for the great reference to Lenin's NEP and the link well work reading.

[Will88]

We really shouldn’t be pretending to have free trade with the poorest nations on earth. The only thing they have to trade is cheap labor for US factories and jobs, and some unique raw materials or ag products.

But the current “fiscal cliff” negotiations are a joke. Nothing they might do will make a dent in our spending and debt problems. We now spend a trillion per year on welfare programs. The only thing that can solve our fiscal problems is a huge movement of people from welfare to work, and that can only happen if there a jobs to move them to, and at present the jobs aren’t there and won’t be until we return to a sane policy of producing what we consume in this country, and trade with nations of comparable living standards, and establish tariffs when trading with nations with much lower living standards.

I don’t expect anything meaningful to be done until our fiscal problems become much worse and we are forced to change many policies.

[khelus]

. . . You mean acknowledge what free trade really is -- what are you? Some kind of protectionist? :)

Best laugh I've had in a while!

[khelus]

. . . foreign factories are subsidized by the US taxpayer and in many instances are subsidized by their own governments. . . .

Trade is rigged. Foreign governments subsidize their exports. And they block American exports: the Congressional Research Service once identified 751 different types of barriers to American exports worldwide. In fact, thanks to the many ways governments manipulate trade, it has been estimated that only about 15 percent of world trade is genuinely free.

[1rudeboy]

All you’ve done is establish that our corporate income tax system is broken. And reading this thread, it appears that some people believe that the solution (and the solution to entitlement spending, and illegal immigration) is to raise the tax rate even higher.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

I took the liberty to copy your excellent comments from The Insourcing Boom thread.

Until the early 1970’s the US had the largest and most efficient manufacturing infrastructure in the world. American products were known for quality. American industry was highly innovative. American industry landed men on the moon.

Until the 1960’s American manufacturing companies were led by executives from the “product” side of the business. They either came up the ladder through sales and marketing and understood how to design and develop innovative new products. Or, they came up through manufacturing and engineering where they understood how to design and build products to manufacture efficiently.

In the 1960’s the financial people wrested control of executive management from the sales and manufacturing executives. These new executives were not producers, they were administrators. They came from top 10 business schools armed with their MBA’s and academic theories as to how to make companies more financially efficient and attractive investments to Wall Street. They slashed sales forces, marketing budgets, product development teams, and capital spending in order to improve reported earnings. They directed the engineering and purchasing staffs to “cost reduce products” by using cheaper components. By starving the factories of capital to purchase new equipment, they ensured the factories would not be able to compete with the new factories in Asia.

There is a knee jerk tendency on Free Republic to blame the loss of US manufacturing on greedy unions. Perhaps that was true in some industries but unions did not control the factories of the South and those factories also fled to Asia. I sat in executive suites in the 1990’s when the outsourcing decisions were made. The financial people, armed with studies from their buddies at Goldman Sachs, wanted the quick Wall Street fix. Announce a big outsourcing effort with a big PR splash telling the market you are going to reduce your cost of production by 20-30%. There will be a quick bounce in the price of the stock. The Wall Street bankers will help finance the move, sell off the assets, and provide capital for the new, highly efficient factory in China. Then, the savings can be plowed into stock buybacks and acquisitions, enabled by the same Wall Street banks. This was the real story of the great outsourcing, not greedy unions.

The US manufacturing people asked for the same new equipment being funded for the Chinese factories and were denied, being told to compete with modern technologically enabled Asian factories using the equipment purchased in the 1950’s and 1960’s before the financial people took over. The US manufacturing managers and engineers were aware of the lean manufacturing techniques and asked for funding to reconfigure the assembly lines and train the workers in the new processes. The financial people running the firms told them it was a waste of money to spend on obsolete factories. The marketing and sales people asked for funding for new product innovation. The financial people told them they couldn’t having funding for products that would take 2-3 years to develop and bring to market. Any investment had to have an immediate payout and impact on the bottom line.

The truth is, the decisions to outsource American manufacturing were made by Harvard MBA’s in the executive suite and on Wall Street. The takeover of corporations by financial people who put in huge bonus incentive structures which provided zero incentive for long term investments in products and production resulted in the stripping of American companies and outsourcing of factories. What CEO would make a three year investment in making a 1950’s factory state of the art when he could see an immediate gain by shutting it down and moving the production to China?

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Speaking of before "MBA’s and academic theories as to how to make companies more financially efficient" (reply #67) I recall reading in While America Aged that in 1950s when GM had 50 percent of the market the president of GM "Engine Charlie" Wilson's pension was $25,000 / year. About $250,000 in today's dollars, I believe; and that is about ten percent(?) of what big corporation executives get today.

[Iscool]

When 53% would rather not work because the government benefits are better, where do you think the jobs are going?

So with millions of Americans and 30 million illegals, employers can't find workers, so they move to China, eh???

[Iscool]

No, that is NOT another discussion in itself. That IS THE disucssion at hand. The war on business, by unions, bureaucrats, taxes, and unemployment benefits, is PRECISELY why the jobs have gone. Period.

Nope...Those business have left because the gov't has allowed them to leave or it's refusal to make it more costly for them to leave while still doing business in the U.S...

If those same companies moved back to the U.S. and imports were restricted thru tariffs, those companies would still prosper...

[Iscool]

We discuss it a lot. And it has been repeatedly explained to you that jobs will not be "brought back" by increasing taxes on ourselves.

At what point do you think companies would move back to the U.S. from China??? Under what conditions???

[Moseley]

Brilliant, so big government, big regulation, and big taxes can reacquire the revenue that excessive regulation, taxes, and fat union bosses drove out of the country in the first place.

No, if the Democrat WAR ON BUSINESS doesn't stop, through over-regulation and excessive taxation, as well as demonization of business and constant uncertainty of ever-changing laws and regulation, then nothing else will work. Businesses will not return jobs to the USA if Democrats continue to make it too expensive to operate in the USA.

The Democrats will drive jobs out of the U.S.A. no matter what we do. Obviously the USA has to also become a more reasonable business environment.

But it is an additional, separate factor that US products are being fraudulently presented as products of other countries, when that is fake.

[Moseley]

But one factor, and one first step, is to refute the nonene that Republicans are the ones outsourcing jobs to other countries.

Democrats are driving jobs out of the USA, while simultaneously blaming Republican for it.

That leads to Democrats getting re-elected and then causing even more damage.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "In the 1960’s the financial people wrested control of executive management from the sales and manufacturing executives. These new executives were not producers, they were administrators. They came from top 10 business schools armed with their MBA’s and academic theories . . . ."

Was one of them that Strange McNamara fellow? who "[a]fter graduating from Harvard Business School, . . . worked a year for the accounting firm Price Waterhouse in San Francisco . . . returned to Harvard to teach accounting in the business school [that included] a program to teach analytical approaches used in business;" and wreaked all that and more upon our military in the JFK administration? That guy was one of them? I remember him. (wiki graffiti source)

[khelus]

All you’ve done is establish that our corporate income tax system is broken. . . .

Actually I've established established that your post # 21 about a corporate income taxes and even playing field is not quite accurate.

[khelus]

. . . The truth is, the decisions to outsource American manufacturing were made by Harvard MBA’s in the executive suite and on Wall Street. The takeover of corporations by financial people who put in huge bonus incentive structures which provided zero incentive for long term investments in products and production resulted in the stripping of American companies and outsourcing of factories. What CEO would make a three year investment in making a 1950’s factory state of the art when he could see an immediate gain by shutting it down and moving the production to China?

Soul of the South,
This is probably the best summary I've read.

The only comment I would add is this is why Marx promoted 'Free Trade', i.e. free movement of capital across national borders unconstrained by ethics or patriotism.

Coincidentally the first schools infiltrated by Cultural Marxism were the one attended by those MBA's.

As an IT professional, I've seen very similar thinking go into out sourcing and guest workering the field.

William of Carmichael,
Thanks for posting.

[1rudeboy]

Pointing out that a greater percentage of foreign corporations do not pay U.S. corporate income taxes (for whatever reason) than their U.S. counterparts, does not indicate that the U.S. corporate income tax (or other taxes on corporations operating in the U.S., foreign or domestic), should rise.

It is a fundamental concept that many fail to grasp. If the government targets one, it hits the other.

[1rudeboy]

At what point do you think companies would move back to the U.S. from China??? Under what conditions???

When they aren't punished for doing business here, under the current tax code?

[khelus]

Pointing out that a greater percentage of foreign corporations do not pay U.S. corporate income taxes (for whatever reason) than their U.S. counterparts, does not indicate that the U.S. corporate income tax (or other taxes on corporations operating in the U.S., foreign or domestic), should rise. . . .

Bi it doesn't, but, to repeat, it does point out that post 21 about a corporate income taxes and even playing field is not quite accurate.

[1rudeboy]

Again, no. The comment to which I responded suggested that foreign corporations do not pay U.S. corporate income tax. Incorrect. It went on to imply that the corporate income tax rate on foreign corporations could be increased without any pain to ourselves, in the name of “fairness.”