Posted on 11/30/2012 12:10:18 PM PST by Coleus
Controversy is stirring over recent comments made by Rick Warren, author of the best-selling book The Purpose-Driven Life and megachurch leader of Saddleback Church in California, who stated that homosexual behavior “might be” sinful, and that he believes homosexuals go to Heaven. During an interview this week with the Huffington Post, Warren was asked by Marc Lamont Hill if having romantic feelings for a member of the same sex is a sin. Leading up to the question, Warren was explaining that he does not hate homosexuals, and that people should disagree politely on the subject of homosexuality.
“I have many, many gay friends, and have worked around the world with them in gay organizations to try to stop AIDS,” he said. “We’re doing ‘World AIDS Day’ this weekend at Saddleback Church. My wife and I have given millions of dollars to help people with HIV/AIDS and have worked with gay organizations on that.” “What about the love part, though? I hear about the AIDS part,” asked Hill. “It’s not illegal to love somebody,” Warren replied. “But you think it’s a sin,” Hill asserted. “No, it’s not a sin to love somebody,” Warren said. “It might be a sin to have sex with them,” he added. “It might be.”
However, just moments prior, Hill aired a clip from an interview that Warren participated in on Piers Morgan this week, where Warren presented a slightly different answer. He began by responding to the question of whether or not a person can be born homosexual. “I think the jury is still out on that,” he said. “It wouldn’t bother me if there was a ‘gay gene’ found, because here’s what we know about life: I have all kinds of natural feelings in my life, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that I should act on every feeling. … I do not believe that attraction is a sin, but I do believe that some actions are sin.”
Warren stated during his interview with Hill that he believes sex outside of marriage is always sinful, however, and that he obtains his views from the Bible. “I make no bones about it. I’m an evangelical pastor, so my source of authority is, what does the Bible say about it?” he said. “However, people will have other sources of authority.”
“Or, different readings of the Bible,” Hill injected. “Or different readings — that’s very true,” Warren agreed. Later during the interview, when Hill asked Warren if he believes homosexuals will go to Hell, he replied that they will not. “No, not because they’re gay,” he said. “We go to Hell because we choose to reject the grace of God.” When Hill asked what happens to a homosexual that accepts Jesus, Warren responded enthusiastically. “He’s going to Heaven!” he declared. “Without a doubt.”
Warren is not the first evangelical to make the assertion, however. Earlier this year, megachurch author and speaker Joel Osteen similarly told popular talk show host Oprah that he also believes homosexuals are saved. “Will a gay person be accepted into heaven, as you see it?,” Oprah asked Osteen. “I believe they will,” he replied. Craig Gross of “XXXChurch” also made statements in July that he doesn’t think God would send homosexuals to Hell.
“Why do they (religious people) believe that the gay guy goes to Hell, but the fat preacher who builds some of the largest churches in the world makes it to Heaven?” Gross wrote in an online blog. However, many Christians view statements such as these as compromise against the word of God. “The concept of a ‘gay Christian’ is an oxymoron in light of numerous Scriptural instances wherein homosexual behavior is forbidden,” Alex Mason, policy analyst for the Family Policy Network, told Christian News Network. “One cannot live in a continual state of unrepentant sexual sin while calling themselves a Christian.”
“That’s not to say Christians can’t struggle with sin, including sexual sin,” he continued. “The Christian life as a constant struggle against sin, and just as some Christians struggle to defeat heterosexual lust, others may struggle to defeat homosexual lusts.”
Peter LaBarbera, the president of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, agreed. He stated that he was shocked at Rick Warren’s comments. “You don’t want to give the impression that it’s fine and dandy to live the homosexual lifestyle and as long as I believe in Jesus, I can still go to Heaven,” he said. “It’s one thing to have attractions and [fight] that, [and another to embrace homosexual behavior].”
Mason, whose ministry operates the website HopeForHomosexuals.com, stated that Warren should have explained his beliefs further, so as not to jeopardize the eternity of valuable souls. “Warren failed to define what it means to ‘accept Christ,’ leaving viewers with the notion that a person can simply express a ‘belief’ in Jesus’ existence without turning away from the sins He died to atone,” he lamented.
“When you accept Christ, your behavior changes,” LaBarbera said. “And the attitude is [people like Warren] don’t want to talk about changes. … We know that God changes homosexuals, so why isn’t Rick Warren saying that?” LaBarbera also told Christian News Network that he thinks Warren is treading into very dangerous territory by insinuating that the issue of homosexual behavior is a grey area.
“What part of Romans 1 doesn’t Rick Warren understand? It’s so clear,” he said. “When you make statements like these, you end up losing the Biblical sense, and the Biblical sense is that this is an abomination.” Mason agreed, and outlined that sin needs to be taken seriously by those who wear the name of Christ.
“Christians should not, for one moment, hesitate when asked about behaviors that Scripture clearly calls sinful,” he said. “It is impossible for anyone to legitimize or make holy what God Himself has called unholy.”
“The Apostle Paul did not hesitate to faithfully echo God’s standards in his letter to the Corinthians, wherein he included a long list of sins that will keep people from the kingdom of God, including the sin of homosexuality,” Mason continued, citing 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. “Modern preachers would do well to follow Paul’s example in condemning that which God has condemned, while also proclaiming that the only hope for sinners – homosexual and heterosexual alike — is faith in Jesus Christ: ‘All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.’”
LaBarbera said that Warren should not only have called homosexual behavior sin, but should have gone deeper to the root issue. “It’s also sinful to lust after another man,” LaBarbera said. “We can’t advocate sin as believers, and we have to think about how that the person that’s struggling with homosexuality is going to hear this.” “There is no Biblical basis for his statements,” he added. “I think Rick Warren needs to retract that ['might be'] statement and clarify it. If he does not retract it, he has fallen into error.”
“Rick Warren has a heart for lost souls, but he seems fearful he’ll offend people he could otherwise lead to salvation by telling the truth about their sin. That may indicate an inadequate faith in God’s sovereignty, or a failure to fully believe God’s Word has the power to transform lives,” Mason concluded. “I pray he’ll find the courage to be just as determined to be the salt of the earth as he is to be a light to the world.” Requests for comment were not returned by Saddleback Church.
This is typical with liberal thinking.
With Warren, I NEVER get that "quickening" which comes when I hear real Bible teaching. Never.
Sure, Gays go to heaven.
Along with murderers, thieves, prostitutes, tax collectors, and anyone else who REPENTS.
If your pastor is like Rick and cannot call sin, sin, I would look for a new spiritual leader.
(Emphasis mine.) It looks like "The Message" is the very definition of squishy, complete with a subtle and completely fabricated redirection of the sin described-"it wasn't homosexuality that was the sin, it was that they didn't love each other!" What rot.
It’s sinful, just like lying, murdering, raping, thieving, and the like.
And yes, gays can go to Heaven. Just like liars, murderers, rapists, thieves, and anyone else.
John 3:16 - it’s very simple, and that’s what makes it so complicated.
Believe in Jesus Christ, that He is the Son of God, and that He died for our sins; then repent and turn from our old, wicked, sinful ways. Then BAM - die and go to heaven.
/opps, no pun was intended, but I’ll leave it cause it’s there now.
In both the old and the new testament. If we think we’re going to do as we please, not repent and TURN from our vomit; we’re likely to be fooled. - Christ died for our sins; shed his blood on the cross for us so we COULD repent and be saved from living our lives in a pool of our own nasty vomit. His loving grace REALLY SAVES US now and forever. - I think Rick Warren got rich and famous long before he got smart enough to be running his mouth. Of course, like Obama, he thinks people expect him to wax profound; so he tries.
I lost respect for Rick Warren when he interviewed Obama during his first campaign. Warren drank the cool-aid and hasn’t recovered from the poison.
I haven’t listened in quite while, but Hugh Hewitt used to sing the praises of this guy.
The context of the question did not appear to be about heterosexual relationships. Warren was trying to play both ends against the middle. His response is a masterpiece of word parsing.
Am I in awe of him? Not by a long shot. What I am is disappointed that most here overlooked the money quote in the article:
“We go to Hell because we choose to reject the grace of God.” When Hill asked what happens to a homosexual that accepts Jesus, Warren responded enthusiastically. “He’s going to Heaven!” he declared. “Without a doubt.”
Instead it seems that all of the attacks are simply based on reading an inaccurate headline rather than the story itself.
Warren’s quote describes belief without repentance.
This approach to the gospel (belief without repentance) is showing up more and more in mainstream evangelical churches. Very disturbing how the enemy’s is stealthily injecting the pagan culture into the church.
I’ll strongly consider your advice...when I get on a game show requiring complete ignorance.
Yes he is, thank goodness I did not buy that book. A Church gave them away, I read it, did nothing for me. Any Christian would already know his points.
If he ever held to Christian teaching at all.
You always have to wonder if the debased seed of apostasy was always in their personal beliefs. The Purpose Driven Life contains enough New Ageism as evidence.
I completely agree.. Warren has become all about two things: Self-promotion and the big bucks.
“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” -1 Cor 6:9, NIV
... among others. There is no salvation from willful, unrepentant sin. The homosexual who fights to stop sinning and repents can be saved. The homosexual who proudly lives a homosexual lifestyle is willfully and unrepentantly sinning.
Hebrews 10:24-26 . . . and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near, for if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins . . .
1. Death penalty for using the Lord’s name in vain
“He who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.” (Lev. 24:16)
2. Prohibition against eating pork
“And the swine, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. Of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch; they are unclean to you.” (Lev. 11:7–8)
3. Mandating of animal sacrifices
“If anyone sins unwittingly in any of the things which commanded not to be done, and does any one of them, if it is the anointed priest who sins, thus bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer the sin which he has committed a young bull without blemish to the Lord as a sin offering. He shall bring the bull to the door of the tent of meeting before the Lord, and lay his hand on the head of the bull, and kill the bull before the Lord. … And all the fat of the bull of the sin offering he shall take from it, the fat that covers the entrails and all the fat that is on the entrails, and the two kidneys with the fat that is on them at the loins, and the appendage of the liver which he shall take away with the kidneys … and the priest shall burn them upon the altar…. (Lev. 4:1–10)
[NOTE: The first several chapters of Leviticus are devoted to mandatory animal sacrifices, such as the wringing of turtledoves’ necks, the cutting open of goats and bulls, and the vivisection of female lambs, for various sins.]
4. Death penalty for spiritualists
“A man or woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them.” (Lev. 20:27)
5. Human slavery sanctioned
“As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a Possession for ever.” (Lev. 25:44–46)
6. Prohibition against eating fat
“It shall be a perpetual statute throughout Your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.” (Lev. 3:17)
7. Forbidding of hair and beard trimming
“You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.” (Lev. 19:27)
8. Prohibition against eating crab, clams, oysters
“Everything in the waters that has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers, you may eat. But anything in the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is an abomination to you. They shall remain an abomination to you; of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall have in abomination. Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is an abomination to you.” (Lev. 11:9–12)
9. Death penalty for adultery
“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.” (Lev. 20:10)
[Leviticus lists four other kinds of adultery for which the death penalty is also mandatory.]
10. The profanity of disabled individuals
“For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, a man blind or lame, or who has a mutilated face or a limb too long, or a man who has an injured foot or an injured hand, or a hunchback, or a dwarf, or a man with a defect in his sights or an itching disease or scabs or crushed testicles; no man of the descendants of Aaron the priest who has a blemish shall come near to offer the Lord’s offerings by fire; since he has a blemish, he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God…He shall not come near the veil or approach the altar, because he has a blemish, that he may not profane my sanctuaries…” (Lev. 21:18–23)
11. Other prohibitions
“Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.” (Lev. 19:19)
“To God sin is sin whether it be stealing or murder or even mental attitude sins (in your mind”
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Nice answer
Some people do not realize all the sins they commit daily such as passing up the homeless man on the side of the road that is hungry, dirty, without shelter and without love.
I was trying to explain this to a friend recently and the homeless man was the best example I could think of.
Do you have some others that I might share with those who “don’t sin daily”
I have two words from God....
Abomination.
h/t Joe Biden
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