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To: DaveMSmith; grey_whiskers; Nifster
You're either comfortable with an idealized construct of a Messiah that isn't the truth, or you want to know the truth.
Pauline Christianity has transformed Jesus into some sort of benign deity that will do all the heavy lifting for anyone.
The historic Jesus, if one was to walk beside him on a dusty road in 2nd Temple Israel/Galilee, they would understand him as a revivalist not a revolutionary.
Think early 1900's tent-by-the-river on the outskirts of town type of revivalism, except with original-beginning Judaism. What Jesus taught is what his/our Father imbued in him at his baptismal coronation.
What cannot be denied (by those that accept the truth and not eisegesis) is that YHWH didn't imbue Jesus with a new Judaism, or a new religion (christianity) or a different revolutionary Judaism (hellenism) but what Jesus was imbued with was the original Judaism that YHWH wanted His Chosen People (and those who wanted to enter the Kingdom) to know & follow.

History and Truth and not just Eisegesis

• The original Jerusalem Jesus Community was a hebrew/aramaic-speaking community perceived as no more than another Jewish sect in Jerusalem
• Stephen and the other Hellenists inside the Community had a disagreement with the hierarchy (James, Peter, etc) of the Jerusalem Jesus Community that led to a 'falling out' with the 'Hebrews' of the Community
• That 'disagreement' was ultimately over Stephen's Temple-less version of Judaism, which contained a less-than-full version of the Mosaic Law and his wish to allow Gentiles to join without converting in any way
• Stephen was killed and the rest of the Hellenists were thrown out of the Community and scattered to Samaria and Syria amongst other places including Damascus & Antioch
• These Hellenists, including Phillip, taught the Temple-less version of Judaism, which contained a less-than-full version of the Mosaic Law allowing unconverted Gentiles to "join"
• Paul came into contact with these Law-Free Hellenists and began pursuing and persecuting them
• Paul did not persecute the 'Hebrews' of the original Jerusalem Jesus Community, Paul's pursuits were of the Law-Free Hellenists
• Paul's "conversion" near Damascus (where he was indoctrinated by the Law-Free Hellenists) was his epiphany that he saw the error of his ways and adopted the Temple-less version of Judaism from the Hellenists and to teach to the Gentiles a morality-only and less-than-full version of the Mosaic Law
• There were two distinct independent movements within 10-20 years of Jesus' execution: a Law-Observant Community that consisted of the original Disciples and their Jewish followers and the other movement, a Law-Free Christianity started by the Hellenists and developed by Paul in Antioch

We have historical proof in other readily available, (non-Sunday-morning-devotionals) yet heavily cited, history books that before Paul's "Mission" the disciples and other followers of The Way disseminated the uncorrupted 1st Century 2nd Temple Jewish teachings of Jesus throughout Egypt and Asia, beginning to doing so just after Jesus' execution.

These Jewish missions by Matthew, Thomas, & Thaddeus Etc went to the LOST Jewish communities in the Diaspora, and taught based on just the Mission and Aims of Jesus, including an admission for Gentiles:

• If a Gentile were to be called by the Spirit of YHWH and he then sought out the missionary from Jerusalem, that Gentile would be accepted as a proselyte or convert but the Mission and Aims of Jesus never taught the disciples nor any missionary of The Way to proselytize to the Gentiles directly. Gentiles/Pagans/Heathens had to seek out The Way and discover it themselves……The Way was always originally meant to be for bringing wayward Jews back to the original hebrew way of following YHWH.

We also have historical proof in other scholarly history books that before Paul's "Mission" the disciples and other followers of The Way disseminated the original uncorrupted 1st Century Jewish teachings of Jesus throughout Egypt and Asia, without any help from Paul or the Hellenists:

The Way was disseminated into India by Jewish Missionaries from Jerusalem and the original Jerusalem Jesus Movement, it was first to the extant Jewish communities or communities which ere created based on the original Jerusalem Jesus Movement. there were patristic (roman catholic saints) reports of copies of Gospel of the Nazarenes existing in India
•  The Way was disseminated into Egypt by Jewish Missionaries from Jerusalem and the original Jerusalem Jesus Movement, it was first to the extant Jewish communities or communities which ere created based on the original Jerusalem Jesus Movement
The Way eventually settled in part os Syria/Persia even after the Fall of Jerusalem with the Hebrew Matthew Gospel/Gospel of the Nazarenes existing with the secluded communities of Jews who followed The Way, according to patristic (roman catholic saints) reports.
• These missions were initiated before the beginning of the Pauline Christianity and Paul's version of the 'mission to the gentiles'.

These Jewish missions by Matthew, Thomas, & Thaddeus Etc went to the LOST Jewish communities in the Diaspora and taught  based on just the Mission and Aims of Jesus including an admission for Gentiles:

• If a Gentile were to be called by the Spirit of YHWH and he then sought out the missionary from Jerusalem, that Gentile would be accepted as a proselyte or convert but the Mission and Aims of Jesus never taught the disciples nor any missionary of The Way to proselytize to the Gentiles directly. Gentiles/Pagans/Heathens had to seek out The Way and discover it themselves……The Way was always originally meant to be for bringing wayward Jews back to the original hebrew way of following YHWH.

We already know from research of Jesus' Mission & Aims that Jesus parousia/eschatology was oriented towards the Restoration of the Kingdom of Israel initiated by the Revival of the true Judaism of YHWH.

• Jesus envisioned the Restoration of the Kingdom of Israel as a world-changing event with the Kingdom of Israel being the World's guide, with Gentiles/Pagans/Heathens having an obvious place within this changed world • Obviously when the Restoration was initiated and the Judgement takes place at the 2nd Coming, those Gentiles left whom have not accepted YHWH and His Word will be given the chance to do so.



References:
Löning, Karl The Circle of Stephen and Its Mission from Christian Beginnings edited by Jürgen Becker. Westminster/John Knox Press USA 1993
Klutz, Todd Paul and the development of Gentile Christianity from The Early Christian World edited by Philip F. Esler. Routledge USA 2000
Bruce F.F. Stephen and the other Hellenists from Men and Movements in the Primitive Church by F.F. Bruce. Paternoster Press Great Britain 1979
Elmer Ian J. The Roots of the Crisis: Hebrews and Hellenists from Paul, Jerusalem, and the Judaisers by Ian J. Elmer Mohr Siebeck Germany 2009
Klijn, A.F.J. Jewish Christianity in Egypt from The Roots of Egyptian Christianity edited by Birger Pearson, Fortress Press USA 1986
Nagar, Sanjeev Christianity in Asian Countries, Mahaveer & Sons Publishing India 2010
Bird, Michael F. Jesus and the Origins of the Gentile Mission, T&T Clark USA 1988
Pines, Shlomo The Jewish Christians of the Early Centuries of Christianity According to a New Source. Central Press Jerusalem 1966
59 posted on 11/23/2012 8:02:45 AM PST by brent13a
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To: brent13a

and it is all blasphemy


61 posted on 11/23/2012 9:52:52 AM PST by Nifster
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To: brent13a
tl;dr
64 posted on 11/23/2012 3:32:39 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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