Posted on 11/02/2012 8:33:44 PM PDT by Rob in Arizona
Catholic voters have reason to feel particularly aggrieved, given the Obama administration’s battle with the Catholic church over the mandate in Obamacare that employers cover abortion drugs and contraceptives. Those grievances came to the fore particularly sharply in mid-October, after the Vice Presidential debate between incumbent Democrat Joe Biden and Republican challenger Paul Ryan (both Catholics). Ryan brought up the conflict between the administration and the church over Obamacare: “They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals.” Biden’s response was total denial: With regard to the assault on the Catholic Church, let me make it absolutely clear. No religious institution, Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic Social Services, Georgetown Hospital, Mercy--any hospital--none has to either refer contraception. None has to pay for contraception. None has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact. That is a fact. Ryan responded simply: “If they agree with you, then why would they keep--why would they keep suing you?” The church responded at greater length, with the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops publicly disputing Biden’s “fact”: This is not a fact. The HHS mandate contains a narrow, four-part exemption for certain "religious employers." That exemption was made final in February and does not extend to "Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital," or any other religious charity that offers its services to all, regardless of the faith of those served.
(Excerpt) Read more at cdn.breitbart.com ...
The Holy Father is an old man in a hurray. He knows that the Church is threatened with collapse in the West because so many priests are like the late Cardinal of Milan. I gather than he must be surprising himself with the energy he has managed to summon since he became pope. He seems the quintessential mild-manner professor. But the strength is there. It now seems that he is this century’s Leo XIV.
So, Holly_P (just kidding!).
Good point about the lesser of two liberals. The difficulty is that a true conservative can no longer get elected in this now-socialist, welfare state, polygolt (not melting pot) country.
I don’t suppose Ronald Reagan could get elected today, partly due the the 24/7 institutional and social media (vastly slanted left) which did not exist in 1980, and partly due to slow but inexorable trends: the increasing liberalization that comes with each generation due to the schools, the lack of fathers in the home, thus more self-indulgent whiners in every generation, and the increasing misunderstanding of the critical role of a free market economy to a well-functioning and literate democratic citizenry.
Astute observation. With the 2 dicasteries this year, it’s pretty clear he’s stacking the deck for the next conclave. At 85, the Holy Father is incredibly impressive, and no doubt his mind is still razor sharp. God bless him.
“partly due the the 24/7 institutional and social media (vastly slanted left) which did not exist in 1980”
What we had were the (vastly slanted left) newspapers, Time, Life, Newsweek, US News, NBC, ABC, and CBS, and that was about it. The leftards were the gatekeepers of what the American people could know or find out.
If you wanted to read the National Review, you had to subscribe, because it wasn’t on the stands. Most people had never heard of it.
When I discovered how biased the media were, around 1982, and started talking about it, people looked at me like I had one eye in the middle of my forehead. *Nobody* believed it.
Walter Cronkite, the crypto-commie scumbag, was “the most trusted man in America.” When he said “the war is now unwinnable” after our military utterly destroyed the Viet Cong in the reaction to the Tet Offensive, we didn’t have any way to fact-check his BS. We didn’t know, and couldn’t find out.
No, the news situation is manifestly better now. Not only do we have many sources of information, but many, many more people know that the dinosaur media are very biased.
Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass? The first part of the Mass is readings of the Bible. One reading from the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John and two from the other books of the Bible. I’ve been attending Mass for 63 years and it has always been a part of the Mass I’ve attended. Unless you sleep through Mass you will always hear the teachings of the Bible. And no matter what Catholic Church you attend, whether in St. Louis or New York, they will all have the same readings that day.
Here in NJ the government has been very successful in closing down Catholic hospitals and schools; for the former they required the emergency rooms to treat everyone regardless of their ability while constantly reducing the reimbursement from the state for those unable to, and with the latter they simply taxed everyone so much for the public education that they couldn’t afford private schools.
It was a brilliant plan, was carried out successfully, and without a whimper from the hierarchy.
“The only reason the Democrats control the big cities is because of their control of the Catholic vote.”
Our cities haven’t been Catholic in decades; many of the recent Hispanic immigrants aren’t Catholic, and blacks rarely are. Here in NJ our capital (Trenton) closed its last Catholic high school years ago. Dems control the big cities because they buy votes with wealth redistribution from suburbs into the cities.
“I’m a Catholic and it has long frustrated me that so many of my fellow Catholics seem to migrate to the Democrats. Never ever understood that.”
Same with me!! I started to realize after some reading and even personal observation that a lot of it had to do with generations of blue collar catholics continuing to vote democrat because of the unions in the big city areas. Their reasons to vote democrat disintegrated over the years but they kept pulling the lever anyway. It ran in their families, so to speak. 30 or 40 years ago this may have made sense, but no longer.
Meant to ping you to the above : )
“...We live in NoVA...”
You are blessed!! We stopped in Front Royal a few weeks ago on the way to visit our daughter in law school (Lexington, 3L at W&L). The mass was at St. John the Baptist and it was also fantastic. Pray for us still in the wastelands of the Albany Diocese that we end up with a decent bishop after Hubbard retires.
Lots of government employees and retirees.
Upstate NY is full of horrible priests! My son is a junior at Syracuse and the churches there have lay people giving sermons Eric. Ido feel for you! Our bishop, bishop Loverde is very good.
That’s a plausible explanation. Maybe if there is anything good about the past four years it might be (I hope) that many Catholics will start to re-examine their life-long affiliation with the party of evil.
“Upstate NY is full of horrible priests!” You’ve got that right!! Rochester is even worse than Syracuse as far as over the top liturgies - sickening! Albany not too far behind ...
Not so. In May 2008, her bishop told her she could not receive communion. That is not excommunication.
No, I don't read the Bible. I have it read to me every morning at Mass. One reading, either from the OT or from the Epistles, and one reading from the Gospels. Some days, like this morning, there are two readings from the Epistles. Over a three year cycle, I hear essentially the entire Bible, except for some portions of the OT (the "begats" are not usually included in the readings).
Exclusion from communion is excommunication. Perhaps you have something else in mind?
No, it is not.
From: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm (Catholic Encyclopedia) --
Excommunication (Latin ex, out of, and communio or communicatio, communion — exclusion from the communion [They're not talking about the Eucharist here]), the principal and severest censure, is a medicinal, spiritual penalty that deprives the guilty Christian of all participation in the common blessings of ecclesiastical society.
Notice the wording of the final underlined portion. That goes far beyond the Eucharist. Sibelius is forbidden to receive the Eucharist, not "all participation".
I think this would be a distinction without a difference. I’m really not sure what else her bishop wrote - other than Holy Eucharist.
We’re talking about sacraments and liturgical here, not ‘all participation’ as in going to mass.
You can’t remove a baptism, so I’m not sure what you’re going for here.
Also, if you’re not Catholic, what is your church’s policy regarding politicians who support abortion?
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