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To: donmeaker
Even if the pretended confederacy was valid, which it was not, Lincoln’s soldiers would be killing soldiers of the other country, by contrast, Lee’s soldiers would be killing citizens of the US. So aside from the occasional friendly fire, or the very many deaths from disease, Lincoln was not responsible for, even by the most rabid interpretation in favor of the rebels, killing Americans.

So, do you agree that the Confederacy had no validity?

Sorry, can’t agree with you. By Confederacy, do you mean the Confederate government or the association of seceded states? The seceded states had every right to secede for reasons I’ve explained previously and the Confederate government was what they chose – by mutual consent of the governed – to govern themselves. Either way, the Confederacy (whether the states or their chosen government) was valid.

As to the issue regarding killing of each others’ soldiers, I think it is analogous to the issue of Lincoln blockading Southern ports. Lincoln could not legally blockade his OWN country’s ports – yet in order to blockade Southern ports, it was necessary for him to officially recognize the Confederacy (of seceded states) as a separate country, which he was not willing to do – he considered them American states in rebellion. So, he illegally blockaded the ports. Under this analogy, since Lincoln did not officially recognize the Confederacy, the southern soldiers who were being killed were Americans (although rebels). If he had recognized the Confederacy, technically I suppose they would be considered from “another country” – but this was not the case.

Lincoln could have avoided all this by letting the “wayward sisters go in peace.” I suspect that had that been the case, after a while, one or more of the seceding states, particularly the border states, would have petitioned to rejoin the Union and much of this would have been moot anyway. But after such atrocities as Sherman’s destruction of Atlanta and Sheridan’s destruction of the Shenandoah Valley, not to mention “reconstruction”, the southern wounds were just too deep and an amicable reuniting wouldn’t be possible. Read some of the southern-oriented pages on Facebook sometime; those scars are still being carried by the southern soldiers’ descendants to this day. Forgiveness may be possible, but they won’t forget.

226 posted on 10/21/2012 5:10:24 PM PDT by Fast Moving Angel (A moral wrong is not a civil right: No religious sanction of an irreligious act.)
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To: Fast Moving Angel

Lincoln didn’t have the option to let the states go, after the pretended confederacy declared war and started shooting. They also took several other forts.

Lincoln could have ‘quarantined’ the southern ports, perhaps, or he could have blockaded US trade from other countries. except through ports not in locations in insurrection.

It seems to me that the southern soldiers were very very lucky to not be executed after the war was over. Certainly Grant and other Union officers were far more moral in victory than the Confederate officers who enslaved Union soldiers while the issue was in doubt.


227 posted on 10/21/2012 11:23:36 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Fast Moving Angel

The southern states may have had reason to secede, but they didn’t do it correctly- by amendment, federal law or supreme court case, and so they didn’t. I suspect they knew they had no case because they never tried to make the case to the various states, to the supreme court or to the federal legislature.

They gathered armies, and won some battles, but lost their insurrection.


228 posted on 10/23/2012 8:33:49 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Fast Moving Angel

When discussing the burning of Atlanta, remember that Hood set fire to the city first. Confederates routinely committed atrocities such as slashing fire hoses after setting various cities on fire.

Then you can throw in General Wheeler’s use of infernal devices to block Sherman’s path, (and to murder random civilians traveling on the roads).

Compare to that Grant’s gentle terms to the soldiers captured at Vicksburg. Such soldiers were tired of war, and needed their parole to protect them from being enslaved by their rebel states.


229 posted on 10/23/2012 8:38:09 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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