Posted on 09/22/2012 9:58:53 AM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
The Catholic Church in Germany is urging its followers to put their money where their faith is. Under a new rule, anyone who doesn’t pay church tax will no longer be considered a member of the flock.
Catholics who decide to skip the tax will be unable to receive Communion, be confirmed or go to confession, Die Welt newspaper wrote on Thursday. The rule, which takes effect on September 24, also bars non-payers from becoming godparents or belonging to a Catholic congregation.
Critics have argued that believers can still count themselves as members of the Catholic community and practice their faith without paying the church tax – which amounts to 8 or 9 percent of a person’s income, depending on the state.
A “general decree” published on Thursday by the German Bishops Conference says church-leavers have violated their obligation to make a “financial contribution that allows the church to fulfill its role.”
Die Welt reported that Pope Benedict XVI personally approved the document, which puts an end to months of wrangling over the issue.
Couples can receive an exemption to be married in the church, as long as they pledge to maintain their faith and raise their children as Catholics. But the powers that be can deny church tax dodgers a Catholic burial “if the person who has left the church has not shown any sign of remorse before death.”
Though the bishops’ text avoids the word “excommunication,” the consequences of the all-or-nothing rule are essentially the same.
If a Catholic notifies the registry office that he has chosen to renounce his faith, thereby allowing him to stop paying church tax, he will receive a letter from a priest that includes a list detailing the consequences of his decision – and an offer to meet for “reconciliation” talks.
More than 100,000 people have left the Catholic Church in Germany each year since 1990 – with more than 126,000 deciding to part ways with the church last year.
One of these folks who had been an officer in the German Army when Hitler too over said that in '37 they had an influx of Catholics who were drafted out of seminaries and were told to make sure they were trained for combat units rather than support units. Apparently the training was through a regionalized system as this man said he wasn't sure whether that was nationwide or only in the area he was serving in, but obviously someone had decided there were not exemptions for Catholics in seminary while Lutherans were still exempted. He said the Nazi supporters in the Army thought it was a good way to help end Germans becoming priests while the regular Army folks weren't so sure it was a good idea given the need for educated people in other capacities.
Maybe you have better sources than these speakers but given the diversity of the four folks who spoke I'd be surprised if they had a distorted picture of things. I am sure, however, that a great many people who write books and articles these days are determined to rewrite history to suit themselves. IMHO, you're misled if you think the majority of any group other than the State Church (which was the Lutheran Church) cooperated with Hitler. Some small Protestant groups formed what they called the German Christianity movement but even large numbers of Baptists and other denominations only cooperated to the degree they were forced to while the Lutheran Church actively supported him.
Lutherans like Bonhoeffer who spoke out against Hitler were the exception which is why he survived so long. Others who didn't have the Lutheran Church on their side were silenced or drafted into some sort of service (military or forced labor) well before the war even started according to what we were told. In addition, the eugenics programs Hitler modeled US eugenics laws were all acceptable to the Lutheran Church both here and in Germany but universally opposed by the Catholic Church.
You can bet that as a good Lutheran who had read and reread Bonhoffer I was absolutely shocked to hear this from German Lutherans who had lived through it all but I see no reason to doubt what they had to say. As the Lutheran pastor who spoke said during the Q&A session, talk about how Catholics and even other non-Lutheran Protestant groups cooperated with Hitler are based on either select propaganda the Nazi party published or a clear case of the survivors writing the history. Survivors who have a vested interest in making everyone seem just as complicit as they were. I guess that's why a lot of Lutherans were always anxious to talk about how the German Army belt buckles had "God Is With Us" stamped on them even though that was a holdover from the WWI equipment used initially rather than based on anything the Nazi regime had anything to do with.
Without a lot of trustworthy new information I think I'll stick to what I heard from people who were there rather than accepting the broad brush some folks like to paint with.
Don’t be so sure: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/21/us-germany-catholic-churchtax-idUSBRE88K0LX20120921
I don't suppose you would care to give specific proof that the Catholic Church to which I belong is somehow "actively assisting in infanticide." I would offer contrary evidence in the Catechism of the Catholic Church which provides for excommunication latae sententiae (automatic) for material cooperation in abortion and the papal encyclical Evangelium Vitae (Gospel of Life) by the late John Paul II. What have you got that proves otherwise?
The Church is not denying Communion to poor Christians. What next pay up for the last rites?
"A major departure wave from both Catholic and Protestant churches occurred in the early 1990s, when the government raised taxes to finance ex-communist eastern Germany.
Since the levy was almost the same as the church tax - whose origins date back to the 19th century - Germans could neutralize the tax boost by quitting their church."
Interesting, a sudden outpouring of the spirit led a large number of people to abandon organized religion and at the same time saved them money.I wonder what spirit that was?
What about the Poor Clares of the world? (not just the Order) What about the couples who followed Church teaching and had large families and struggle to provide - and they do provide the necessities - but certainly do not have cash flow for that tax? “Blessed are the poor...”
Now they have to worry about their children receiving Sacraments and their own burials while those couples who used birth control to limit their offspring and have more cash flow will have no problem receiving Sacraments.
Each German parish will need to set up a fund to help the poor in their area get the Sacraments.
"Catholics who leave can no longer receive sacraments, except for a special blessing before death, the decree states."Obviously they're not planning on charging for last rites. What they're doing is removing from their membership rolls those folks who have sworn to the government that they are no longer Catholic.
Apparently many non-Catholics prefer to wink and nod at their "snow covered pile of dung" (to quote Luther) fellow church members who lie to the government in order to save a few bucks.
It’s still not in line with Church teachings to follow
According to whom?
All churches bowed to Hitler.History is clearly not your strong suit, right? Look up Alfred Delp and Maximilian Kolbe, just to name two.
I remember years ago when my mother (single, divorced, four children) was told what her tithing? would be in the Presbyterian Church. She was outraged.
We never became members and never went again.
I believe this story is bogus. There is no Catholic teaching that would allow this and deny Communion or confession for this sort of thing..It appears that those who "opt out" are formal apostates, they have declared themselves outside of the Church to avoid the tax.
Reuters is disgusting. When we hear it from Rome, such an absurd story as this, and not from some little known source as this column, count me in for a big harrumph.
Meanwhile it reads like a pot of crock having nothing to do with the Catholic faith. The Church is the people, not the buildings historic and beautiful as they may be. The buildings do not come before the people.
I understand. I always wait 48 hours before I start to believe the secular press when it is claiming something about the Church.
The "general decree" that the German bishops' conference released Thursday puts, now clearly states: Those who want to be Catholic, it must be either entirely or not at all. The church can not be split into a worldly apparatus and a spiritual community of faith, both belong together.Whoever comes out of the church can be no Catholic. He loses the rights of membership of the Church, until he returned honors again.
The Pope himself has endorsed the paper
Literally it means in which two A4 pages long document that the Pope has personally approved and on 24 September comes into force: "The declaration of the church exit before the competent civil authority shall be a public act is a deliberate and willful alienation from the church and is a grave offense against the Christian community."
Who resigns contrary, "against the obligation to the community to preserve the Church", and "of the duty to make its financial contribution to the church to fulfill its tasks."
According to leaked Christians expect certain sanctions ("legal consequences"): Who does not pay church tax can, will no longer receive communion, be confirmed at or go to confession. He can take no more and Taufpatenschaften belong to any public church club more.
Permission for marriage depends on conditions
For a church wedding, he can get a special permit under the condition that he is "the preservation of the faith and the Catholic education of children" promises. Finally, it says: "If the leaked out of the church before the person has not shown any sign of remorse death, the church funeral can be denied." In summary, the consequences of withdrawal are the same church so like a excommunication.
At the same time, the future pastors seek to recoup lost sheep in the church. As an addition to its decree, the bishops have adopted a "pastoral letter".
Divides a Catholic the registry office with his resignation, the minister in charge of him to send him this letter and offer him to clear the air, which is for "reconciliation with the Church" lead. In addition to the offer of talks lists the letter also said the sanctions associated with the church exit.
Show me Catholic dogma that says if someone is poor and incapable of paying a tax they will be denied Communion?
Thanks. I think you have a good point. Carefully re-reading the article with it in mind is an interesting exercise.
Personally,I think there is vague information about this and we will see more details about this article coming out soon
Three points:
It’s a tax and it looks to be computed as a percentage surcharge of income tax. I am not sure about Germany in particular, but ordinarily people who are poor pay less tax or no tax in general.
The interdict will be based on a formal and written renunciation of Christian faith. People who reject Christ should of course be denied the sacraments of Christ.
The leaked document either does not speak to the cases when tax is not paid and the apostasy is not forthcoming, or that part was not printed by Die Welt. I find it quite plausible that inability to pay will be treated in some charitable ways. The problem peculiar to German Catholicism is not cases of poverty but people who are Christmas and Easter Catholics and can pay, they just don’t want to. I think it is reasonable to ask them to clarify if they actually have any Catholic faith left.
You wrote:
“Show me Catholic dogma that says if someone is poor and incapable of paying a tax they will be denied Communion?”
Show me where I ever claimed “if someone is poor and incapable of paying a tax they will be denied Communion.”
Don’t be like so many Protestants here at FR and start making things up that no one said. Got it? I expect that from them. I expect better from you.
Also, please tell me about Germany’s poverty problem among Catholics. That will be a short post because there are few genuinely poor people in Germany and most of them are single mothers and their children, drug addicts or immigrants (legal or otherwise).
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