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To: Cliff Dweller
Here is how the Marine Security Detachment works at an Embassy:

Organizationally, they work under the direction of a State Department Regional Security Officer who is in the Administrative Section and works for the Management/Admin officer. Everyone at the Embassy is under the authority of the Ambassador.

The MSG posts at an Embassy are behind bulletproof windows and doors, aka, the secure perimeter. The MSG's control access to the offices and spaces behind the secure perimeter. They literally buzz in visitors and locally engaged employees so they can access the various offices in the Embassy. American employees have access codes that can allow them to get thru the bulletproof doors. All visitors without security clearances including FSNs are escorted.

The primary duties of the MSGs are to secure classified equipment and materials and depending on the circumstances, protection of the facilities and personnel.

Contract guards and host country security personnel are responsibile for protecting the perimeter of the Embassy and screening visitors entering the compound or building outside the secure perimeter. They also screen all vehicles entering the compound and control vehicle access barriers. The RSO and MSGs coordinate their efforts with the contract guards and host country security personnel. Located in the MSG posts is a battery of TV monitors that allow them to monitor what is going on.

The ROE are usually set by the RSO in conjunction with the Department of State and the Ambassador. From my experience, the MSGs are armed with revolvers with bullets. In case of a major event like a breech of the perimeter, the MSGs activate an all-hands alarm, which includes getting more serious weaponry like rifles and donning bulletproof vests and helmets.

Normally, according to the Embassy Action Plan, the Marines will seek to secure the buildings and get everyone behind the secure perimeter. They would not be trying to shoot people coming over the walls or thru the gates. They are there to buy time until the host country can respond to the event and to provide sufficient time, if deemed necessary, to destroy classified material and equipment.

I find it hard to believe that the MSGs are not allowed to carry loaded revolvers. That has always been my experience and I used to be the person the RSOs reported to. Normally, the ROE on the use of deadly force will usually be limited to protecting one's own life or others who are in immediate danger. It is truly the last resort because of the ramifications it might entail with the host government, which is tasked with providing security for the Embassy or Consulate. There is no way the order would be given to shoot someone who is unarmed scaling a wall or taking down a flag.

Being familiar with the Embassy compound in Cairo, it primarily consists of two tall tower buildings, each one occupying a footprint about the size of a baseball diamond. The perimeter wall incorporates office space, e.g, consular facilities, so that people applying for visas don't gain access to the main compound. Consular facilites are hardened to protect consular employees. The Ambassador's residence is at the top of one of the two towers, i.e., penthouse type apartment. There is parking under the compound.

Again, I find it hard to believe that the MSGs would not be allowed to carry revolvers with bullets in them. Admittedly, it would be hard to use them since the MSG is inside the secure perimeter in a bullet proof booth. There have been occasional problems with Marines discharging their weapons accidentially inside the guard booths, but I don't find that to be something that would require that MSGs be disarmed.

I would not jump the gun on this report until it was better sourced. I retired some time ago, but I doubt things have changed that much in terms of security. And I find it very difficult to believe that an Ambassador would overrule an RSO or the Bureau of Diplomatic Security in terms of the ROE. So if such a rule is in place, it is coming from Washington, not the post.

117 posted on 09/13/2012 11:03:20 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

Kabar, I guess it has been awhile ... Marines now possess the Beretta M-9 DA SA 9MM in lieu of revolvers... ;-)


122 posted on 09/13/2012 11:07:37 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller (No such thing as a threat... just targets)
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To: kabar

I would ad that the full complement of Marines varies from Embassy to Embassy. In 2002 they doubled the number in Paki from 11 to 22.

Yesterday someone posted: no Marines in consulate in Libya because it was not an embassy. Other places I have read they had 8 marines responding to the incident.

When my son was an MSG in Jordan, they had live rounds even though the local government was very cooperative. The Jordanians used to call and tell the details of demonstrations and how long they would let it go until the media had their photos and the locals broke it up.


127 posted on 09/13/2012 11:10:46 AM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: kabar
Thanks for your expertise. Nice to hear facts from someone who knows.
Too many people speculate!
159 posted on 09/13/2012 11:40:37 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Encourage all of your Democrat friends to get out and vote on November 7th, the stakes are high.)
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To: kabar

Hi, I found some interesting notes related to this Beacon article. It’s from a site called Nightwatch. I’d be interested in your take on it. There are notes from seemingly knowledgable people in the field.

http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/NightWatch/NightWatch_12000175.aspx

Here’s a sample (my apologies for the length, though, it is only a piece of what’s there)

NightWatch Special Comment: Ambassador Anne Patterson’s April Glaspie moment.

Ambassador Anne Patterson, the US Ambassador to Egypt, experienced her ‘April Glaspie’ moment yesterday when she blamed Americans instead of Egyptians for attacking, storming and desecrating the US Embassy in Cairo and the US Flag.

Old hands will remember, April Glaspie, who was a rising star in the State Department’s constellation of diplomats. Her notorious conversation with Saddam Hussein in early 1990 led Saddam to believe that the US encouraged and condoned an Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

Having worked closely with US officials for a decade in the struggle and war against Iran, Saddam understood that everything after the Glaspie talk was plausible deniability by US President Bush, 41.

Glaspie misunderstood and misjudged the Iraqi leadership and the situation in Iraq. Patterson’s operations at the US Embassy in Cairo bespeak a comparable misjudgment of the Egyptian Arab situation, its volatility and the depth of anti-American sentiment.

She did not permit US Marine guards to carry live ammunition, according to USMC blogs. Thus she neutralized any US military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy.

In this respect, she did not defend US sovereign territory and betrayed her oath of office. She neutered the Marines posted to defend the embassy, trusting the Egyptians over the Marines


200 posted on 09/13/2012 2:20:26 PM PDT by austinaero
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