More Fluctuations Found in Isotopic Clocks

Institute for Creation Research ^ | 8-17-2012 | Brian Thomas

[fishtank]

More Fluctuations Found in Isotopic Clocks

by Brian Thomas, M.S. | Aug. 17, 2012

Age-dating a rock using its radioactive isotopes only works by assuming that the rate at which that "clock" ticks was constant in the past and essentially identical to that in the present. Not long ago, scientists discovered excess helium in crystals1 and "orphaned" polonium radiohalos,2 both of which imply that the decay rates of isotopes commonly used to date earth rocks were dramatically accelerated in the past. Even today, researchers are finding small but significant changes in isotope decay rates, and these add credibility to the idea that isotopic processes were once very different from today's processes.

One standard isotopic clock system uses decaying uranium isotopes. Uranium spontaneously and slowly decays to lead (Pb on the Periodic Table of Elements). Two different uranium isotopes, 235U and 238U, decay into lead at different rates. Geologists assume that the ratio between these is constant and known, giving a convenient shortcut to uranium dating, which only requires that the two uranium amounts be measured.

Of course, this shortcut age-dating method assumes that 238U and 235U have decayed at today's rates throughout the past. It also assumes that the relative amounts of the two have been constant. Physics Today editor Johanna Miller recently wrote, "Standard Pb-Pb dating protocol uses a 238U/235U ratio of 137.88 with zero uncertainty. But several recent studies have cast doubt on that number."3

Miller cited one experiment that found that the uranium ratio (the heavier 238U to lighter weight 235U) is not constant. The study authors wrote, "Our observations have a direct impact on the U-series and U-Th-Pb chronometers," meaning that dates "determined" by uranium decay will need revision.4

Yet another study reported natural variation in the uranium ratio. These authors suggested that natural processes separate the isotopes from one another and skew the ratio, thereby skewing the ages gained by the assumption that the ratio was constant. These authors wrote, "The discovery that 238U/235U varies in nature also has implications for the precision and accuracy of U-Pb dating. The total observed range in U isotope compositions would produce variations in 207Pb/206Pb ages of young U-bearing minerals of up to 3 Ma [million years old], and up to 2 Ma for minerals that are 3 billion years old."5

Two to three million years are not a huge part of three billion. So, adjusting already-published dates to reflect these new and larger error margins will not displace billion-year-old age assignments. However, if today's comparatively tame natural processes affect isotope ratios, then ancient and much more violent processes could have affected those ratios and rates much more, just as the helium in crystals and orphaned radiohalos imply.

Another isotope system used for dating, though more rarely that uranium, is that which occurs when a radioactive samarium isotope decays to the element neodymium. A 2012 Science report re-measured samarium's decay rate, finding that it occurs only about 66 percent as fast as "the currently used value" for age dating.6 This is a huge discrepancy! It means that all published samarium-dated rock ages need to be re-evaluated.

In addition, Purdue University just applied for a patent on a solar flare warning system that relies on ways in which the earth-sun relationship somehow alters nuclear decay rates. Purdue News reports that "Advance warning could allow satellite and power grid operators to take steps to minimize impact and astronauts to shield themselves from potentially lethal radiation emitted during solar storms."7 Their invention would rely on detecting changes in the rate of manganese 54 decaying to chromium 54. Researchers observed the decay rate changes occurring about a day prior to solar flares.

Even carbon dating is in hot water. Scientists typically use this method to age-date carbon-containing objects thought to be only tens of thousands of years old. The relevant radioactive carbon isotope (14C) decays so fast that it should no longer exist in earth materials that are a million or more years old.8 Recently, researchers measured elevated levels of 14C in correlated tree rings and attributed the spike to an unidentified "massive cosmic event."9 If natural processes did alter carbon isotope ratios, then why trust dates that assume the ratios were never altered?

Science shows that isotopic clocks are not all trustworthy.10 The isotope ratios and rates upon which they depend are variable, even on today's comparatively calm earth surface. During the tumultuous Flood, when immeasurable quantities of mantle material were ejected onto earth's surface and water potentially contaminated everything, isotopic clocks ticked much, much faster.11

References

Humphreys, D.R. 2005. Young Helium Diffusion Age of Zircons Supports Accelerated Nuclear Decay. In Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth: Results of a Young-Earth Creationist Research Initiative, Vol. 2. Vardiman, L. et al., eds. El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research and Chino Valley, AZ: Creation Research Society.

Gentry, R.V. 1974. Radiohalos in a Radiochronological and Cosmolocial Perspective. Science. 184 (4132): 62-66.

Miller, J. 2012. Time to reset isotopic clocks? Physics Today. 65 (6): 20-21.

Stirling, C.H. et al. 2007. Low-temperature isotopic fractionation of uranium. Earth and Planetary Science Letters. 264 (1): 208-225.

Weyer, S. et al. 2008. Natural fractionation of 238U/235U. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. 72 (2): 345-359.

Kinoshita, N. et al. 2012. A Shorter 146Sm Half-Life Measured and Implications for 146Sm-142Nd Chronology in the Solar System. Science. 335 (6076): 1614-1617.

Venere, E. New system could predict solar flares, give advance warning. Purdue News. Posted on purdue.edu, August 13, 2012. Despite this, 90 instances of C-14 in supposedly million-year-old earth materials were reviewed and 10 more were presented in Baumgardner, J.R. et al. 2003. Measurable 14C in Fossilized Organic Materials: Confirming the Young Earth Creation-Flood Model. In Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Creationism. R.L. Ivey, ed. Pittsburgh, PA: Creation Science Fellowship, Inc., 127-142.

Lovett, R. A. Mysterious radiation burst recorded in tree rings. Nature news. Posted on nature.com June 3, 2012, accessed August 10, 2012.

Austin, S.A. 2005. Do Radioisotope Clocks Need Repair? Testing the Assumptions of Isochron Dating Using K-Ar, Rb-Sr, Sm-Nd, and Pb-Pb Isotopes. In Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth: Results of a Young-Earth Creationist Research Initiative, Vol. 2.Vardiman, L.et al., eds. El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research and Chino Valley, AZ: Creation Research Society. When heated to plasma, bare nuclei of rhenium radioisotopes decay a billion times faster than normal. See Bosch, F. et al. 1996. Observation of Bound-State β- Decay of Fully Ionized 187Re: 187Re- 187Os Cosmochronometry. Physical Review Letters. 77 (26): 5190-5193.

* Mr. Thomas is Science Writer at the Institute for Creation Research.

Article posted on August 17, 2012.

[YHAOS]

Mere "extrapolation and conjecture based on assumptions with no founding besides a worldview."

And so the quibbling begins.

[YHAOS]

"I’m not sure there even was a Big Bang... nice Yarn though.."

Plausible . . . at least.

But . . . likewise requiring some faith.

[hosepipe]

[ God’s Name is I AM, YHwH (HE IS), Alpha, Omega, Word. ]

What IF God has no name like the Holy Spirit.?.
Joseph or Mary nicknamed Jesus, Jesus.. he may not have had a spiritual name either..
Surely “I AM” is a nickname for humans.. God did not say that was his name..

My vision showed me that in the hereafter language will become obsolete.. therefore... Names..

How can language become obsolete and you can still communicate??
The answer is the thing dreams are made of.. a subject for another time perhaps..

[betty boop]

Joseph or Mary nicknamed Jesus, Jesus. he may not have had a spiritual name either.

Pure BUNKUM, dear brother in Christ!

Revelations makes it very clear that Christ has a name, but only HE (and presumably, His Father) knows what it is.

Language will only become obsolete when human beings — made to be "social animals" from the get-go — no longer have any need to "communicate." With each other — or with God their Father.

Certainly (it seems to me), "I AM" is NOT a "nickname" for humans. The only claim that humans can make is that they "exist."

Humans only EXIST. They have no BEING in themselves — they have existence only by means of participation in BEING.

And that BEING is spelled: I AM. And such a designation can only belong/apply to the Source of Being, whose Name is spelled "I AM."

That is, God Himself.

Can we get clear about that?

[BrandtMichaels]

Well not exactly but then don’t all scientists [ and other researchers ] often each end up with their own unique yet constantly changing [or evolving if one must] worldview?

- so c’est la vie [that’s life] - or to each his own.

But I do find it interesting how often the freeper evos here willingly defend evolution and Darwin yet show little consideration or understanding of opposing yet highly regarded scientific discoveries...

1) What Einstein has added to the worldview equations regarding time paradoxes and the elusive true age and shape of the universe.

and

2) What Shannon has contributed with information theory [in regards to a Higher Power ] requiring an intelligent being to author codes, languages and embedded [or innate] functions.

In my 25 years of computer coding I’ve probably not written more than a million LOC ~ Lines of Code [ with far more errors and modifications to I care to admit ] so I ask you?

How much higher an intelligence than mankind is required to write all the DNA code found in every type of living organism where the smallest is still approx 500 million LOC, human beings roughly 3 billion LOC, and the largest genomes [see marbled lungfish & paris japonica in link below] upto 50 times larger yet? If recorded in books [of approx an inch and a half thick] each of the 3 stacks above would be 100 ft, 600 ft and 30,000 feet high respectively.

http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/stories/white-flower-has-worlds-longest-genome

[BrandtMichaels]

Better yet consider what Dr Walt Brown wrote in section 33 of part I of his online book...

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/IntheBeginningTOC.html

33. Genetic Information

Information never self-assembles. The genetic information in the DNA of each human cell is roughly equivalent to a library of 4,000 books. Even if matter and life (perhaps a bacterium) somehow arose, the probability that mutations and natural selection produced this vast amount of information is essentially zero. It would be analogous to continuing the following procedure until 4,000 books were produced:

a. Start with a meaningful phrase.

b. Retype it, but make some errors and insert a few letters.

c. See if the new phrase is meaningful.

d. If it is, replace the original phrase with it.

e. Return to step “b.”

To produce just the enzymes in one organism would require more than 10^40,000 trials. (To begin to understand how large 10^40,000 is, realize that the visible universe has fewer than 10^80 atoms in it.)

In 1972, evolutionists, out of ignorance, began referring to large segments of DNA as “junk” DNA, because that DNA supposedly had no purpose and was left over from our evolutionary past. What evolutionists called “junk” DNA is now known to produce microRNA which is vital for each organism’s health and also controls to a large extent the production of proteins. Cancers (lung, breast, stomach, prostate, colon, pancreatic, and brain) are frequently a result of damaged microRNA.

Based on all known experience—scientific or otherwise—information only comes from intelligence. Vast amounts of information require a vast intelligence.

The Elephant in the Living Room

Writer George V. Caylor interviewed Sam, a molecular biologist. George asked Sam about his work. Sam said he and his team were scientific “detectives,” working with DNA and tracking down the cause of disease. Here is their published conversation.

G: “Sounds like pretty complicated work.”

S: “You can’t imagine how complicated!”

G: “Try me.”

S: “I’m a bit like an editor, trying to find a spelling mistake inside a document larger than four complete sets of Encyclopedia Britannica. Seventy volumes, thousands and thousands of pages of small print words.”

G: “With the computer power, you can just use ‘spell check’!”

S: “There is no ‘spell check’ because we don’t know yet how the words are supposed to be spelled. We don’t even know for sure which language. And it’s not just the ‘spelling error’ we’re looking for. If any of the punctuation is out of place, or a space out of place, or a grammatical error, we have a mutation that will cause a disease.”

G: “So how do you do it?”

S: “We are learning as we go. We have already ‘read’ over two articles in that encyclopedia, and located some ‘typo’s’. It should get easier as time goes by.”

G: “How did all that information happen to get there?”

S: “Do you mean, did it just happen? Did it evolve?”

G: “Bingo. Do you believe that the information evolved?”

S: “George, nobody I know in my profession truly believes it evolved. It was engineered by ‘genius beyond genius,’ and such information could not have been written any other way. The paper and ink did not write the book. Knowing what we know, it is ridiculous to think otherwise. A bit like Neil Armstrong believing the moon is made of green cheese. He’s been there!”

G: “Have you ever stated that in a public lecture, or in any public writings?”

S: “No. It all just evolved.”

G: “What? You just told me — ?”

S: “Just stop right there. To be a molecular biologist requires one to hold on to two insanities at all times. One, it would be insane to believe in evolution when you can see the truth for yourself. Two, it would be insane to say you don’t believe in evolution. All government work, research grants, papers, big college lectures—everything would stop. I’d be out of a job, or relegated to the outer fringes where I couldn’t earn a decent living.”

G: “I hate to say it, Sam, but that sounds intellectually dishonest.”

S: “The work I do in genetic research is honorable. We will find the cures to many of mankind’s worst diseases. But in the meantime, we have to live with the ‘elephant in the living room’.”

G: “What elephant?”

S: “Design. It’s like the elephant in the living room. It moves around, takes up an enormous amount of space, loudly trumpets, bumps into us, knocks things over, eats a ton of hay, and smells like an elephant. And yet we have to swear it isn’t there!”

George V. Caylor, “The Biologist,” The Ledger, Vol. 2, Issue 48, No. 92, 1 December 2000, p. 2. (www.ontherightside.com) Printed with permission.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your encouragements, dearest sister in Christ!

[Alamo-Girl]

The “beginning.” The “Big Bang” (inflation) according to the Mullahs of Science (a concept they would have adamantly rejected less than a century ago, when “everything” was in an eternal “steady state”). We have not a clue what came before the “Big Bang,” but “something” must have (surely). It is at this point in their speculations that the Science Mullahs leave the pure rarified atmosphere of the icy confines of Science and descend into the sordid and murky depths of (P)philosophy and (R)religion (absent the consciousness of an abrupt change of venue – apparently).

Well and truly said, dear YHAOS! Thank you for sharing your insights!

[Alamo-Girl]

Science has found that we only ‘learn’ our language skills through mimicry; iow if we did not hear it from another [originally our Higher Source] then there’s no learning it without a translator. Furthermore even if we only ‘see’ it [the written word] someone still needs to provide us some feedback in order to begin deciphering it.

Excellent point, dear BrandtMichaels, the information content is encoded.

Thank you for sharing your views and thank you for your enouragement!

[Alamo-Girl]

In short, he was referring science itself to the philosophical discipline of epistemology — the "science" of what do we humans know, how do we know it, and how do we know we know it. Plug in a little experience-based observation and logical reasoning there, and we must acknowledge that apples are not the same thing as oranges.... And thus ought not to be described in identical terms (i.e., because they're both "fruits").

What a splendid analysis of the issue! Thank you, dearest sister in Christ!

[Alamo-Girl]

Exactly. There is no ambiguity in the Names of God.

Hallowed be thy Name...

[hosepipe]

[ Revelations makes it very clear that Christ has a name, but only HE (and presumably, His Father) knows what it is. ]

I am honored that one as yourself agrees with me...
to continue along these memes you and I have a name that will be revealed as well.. (as it is written)

SO then; pretty much everyone has nicknames given to them by their parents or devised by themselves..
language is indeed such a clumsy way of expressing yourself..

If I remember the bible correctly the God thing punished humans by giving them "languages"...
When punishments cease then why not language?...

I love talking to you....
(hold my beer and cigar).... ((( HUG )))

[hosepipe]

[ In my 25 years of computer coding I’ve probably not written more than a million LOC ~ Lines of Code [ with far more errors and modifications to I care to admit ] so I ask you? ]

I became a programmer in 1968 and served for 20 years then served for at least 15 more years as a “Cat Herd”..
You know.. managing programmers(Systems Analyst).. because thats exactly like herding cats..

Now I’m a humble fisherman much too dumb for this conversation...
I fooled AG and BB for years as a smarty pants now I think their on to me...
A little support would be appreciated..

[tacticalogic]

Why do people want to compare apples and oranges?

Because what they really want to talk about is oranges, and comparing apples to oranges is a way to turn a conversation about apples into a conversation about oranges?

[BrandtMichaels]

Surely you know the whole story don’t you hp?

From one language to many at the tower of Babel.

Back to one language in Rev with the new world order too.

[Alamo-Girl]

The Names of God are as serious as a heart attack. Therefore, I very strongly disagree with the characterization of the Names God has given Himself as "nicknames" though I would agree that they are terms of endearment, e.g. I AM, YHwH (He IS), Alpha, Omega, El Shaddai (God Almighty), Adonai (Master), Jesus, Christ, Messiah, Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit.

And certainly there are Names yet to be given or revealed (or not.)

There has also been some theological speculation that the language mankind was speaking when building the Tower of Babel was a spiritual language, i.e. "speaking in tongues." The speculation goes that man was not ready to speak in such a powerful language, that the Holy Spirit had to indwell man before he would be ready.

Also, as I recall, some Jewish mystics believe the power of a certain language is so great that it must be kept secret and passed down to only a select few.

But whatever one might speculate about languages, spiritual languages, powers and such - it is very clear that God Himself wanted us mere mortals to know some of His Names.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - Revelation 1:7-8

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. - Revelation 19:11-13

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - Isaiah 9:6

[TXnMA]

Dear Sister in Christ,

Thank you for this most thought-provoking and insightful essay-post! IMO, you are dealing with the very "essence" of understanding the fact of creation.

Early on in your essay, you made a statement that (IMO) demands clarification, qualification, and expansion:

" That there was a beginning means there is no infinite past."

Please allow me to add a qualification that makes the statement reflect both physical and Scriptural reality:

" That there was a beginning of this universe means it has no infinite past."

And, then, you proceed to discuss this universe (and clarify your above statement) in a most delightful and insightful manner...

---

Even philosophers and scientists who place no credence in Scripture have discussed the possibility of "other" or "parallel" universes.

And Scripture clearly indicates that there is a "place" of existence "beyond" the confines of this created universe. We believers usually call that existence, "Heaven".

And, since Scripture reveals that that "extra-universal reality" is where "I AM" "is", we must look upon both Him and His creation -- and His description of His creative acts in the 31 sentences in Genesis -- with perception that transcends our "earthbound" viewpoint.

...only God, beyond space/time and physical causation, can be the uncaused cause of causation, the first cause, The Creator of the beginning.

Space, time and physical causation are not properties of God the Creator. They are properties of the Creation. Only God is uncaused.

Praise HIM for these insights He has given you to share with us!!

~~~~~~~~~~

...and that leads to my comments-to follow (on the attributes of "I AM")...

[hosepipe]

[ And certainly there are Names yet to be given or revealed (or not.) ]

A wonderful screed on your(and most/many others) point of view... I liked it..
I realize it would hard for a human(any human) to conceive of zero language.. it was hard for me as well..
I had to warm up to it.. I’m such a hard head..

After(during) my vision I talked to the Holy Spirit about this..
About the “merging concept” and got images of people merging together as if in a “meeting”....
But a meeting with no language we all knew what each other was thinking...
Therefore no need to vocalize anything.. lies were not possible..

Not only knew what each was thinking but all with sound(harmonics) and light(in various patterns)...
It was(will be) a wonderous sound light and idea show..
With nuances of thought displayed in varying patterns of light and sound(sometimes)..

With individual and corporate experience of it..
I do like this conversation about language...
Don’t wish to bore you but you pushed one of my buttons..

Sooo then, I asked the Holy Spirit should go tell people about this.?.
The answer was, it makes no difference whether you do or don’t cause nobody will believe you anyway...
I so love direct answers.. I think I like this Holy Spirit guy..
Its true too, I’ve bored more than a few.. LoL...

signed: “waiting to be blessed with the merging gift”...
p.s. maranatha....

[TXnMA]

AH!! The Names of God! What a providential introduction to what I feel led to discuss: the attributes of God...

(I invite all of you to add to and expound upon this meagre list...)

In no particular order (and most certainly, not complete):

• God is... pre-existing

• God is... uncaused

• God is... eternal (without begining or end)

• God is... Alpha and Omega (He IS the beginning and the end)

• God is... unbound by the "universal" time that began with His creation of this universe

• God is... beyond the confines of this particular space-time that He created.

• God is... omnipotent (all-powerful)

• God is... omniscient (all-knowing)

• God is... omnipresent "everywhere at once"

• God is... Spirit

• God is... Love

• God is... unconstrained by whatever interpretation His creatures chose to apply to His Word.

• God is... Creator -- of all that is -- "ex nihilo" -- "from nothing"...

• God is... Maker (former, fabricator, shaper) of every object -- from the substance (material, mass, energy) he created.

• God is... Designer of all that is -- and the "laws" by which it operates

• God is... Author of His Word -- all of it

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

• God... IS... (His Name is "I AM")

  ---

  And, finally,...

• God is... NOT

(Click on image for full, high resolution view...)

[TXnMA]

Intended to copy the rest of you to my #137 -- as a preface to my #139...

Too bad FR has no "Reply All" option... ;-(