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As I wrote in a previous FR thread Requiring Algebra II in high school gains momentum nationwide a large fraction of the population does not have the capacity for abstract thinking to do Algebra II, and I don't want to stamp them all as "high school drop-outs", at least not until a meaningful junior high school diploma is created, certifying that someone can read and do arithmetic through fractions. I don't agree with Hacker that we should give bachelor's degrees to people who cannot do algebra, and most of the NYT commenters agree with me.
1 posted on 07/29/2012 6:05:41 AM PDT by reaganaut1
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To: reaganaut1

Take a look at a 1912 high school math test.


2 posted on 07/29/2012 6:09:36 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: reaganaut1
My aim is not to spare students from a difficult subject, but to call attention to the real problems we are causing by misdirecting precious resources.

We send far to many 'precious resources' to college when they can't do basic math. Where they waste 4 years.

We went to the moon not because it was easy, but because it was hard.

3 posted on 07/29/2012 6:10:30 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: reaganaut1

Git ride of spelleng two. Thate wass harde subjek four me.


4 posted on 07/29/2012 6:10:55 AM PDT by There You Go Again
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To: reaganaut1
Even in the mid 80’s algebra wasn't a requirement for graduation for most public schools. Having said that, algebra isn't that hard, and I do believe the real purpose of school is to learn, even if the grade received is a C or D.

Using algebra is fairly handy in day to day calculations for material, etc. I am saddened when I see grown people guessing or concluding that a determination is impossible, when all that is required is a simple algebra equation.

5 posted on 07/29/2012 6:13:22 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: reaganaut1
I say this as a writer and social scientist whose work relies heavily on the use of numbers.

Counting on your digits doesn't count as higher math.

6 posted on 07/29/2012 6:13:28 AM PDT by Ramcat (Thank You American Veterans)
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To: reaganaut1

The link for the article is http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?pagewanted=all


7 posted on 07/29/2012 6:13:59 AM PDT by RightGeek (FUBO and the donkey you rode in on)
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To: reaganaut1


People do not understand that learniing to perform algebra helps you understand physics and generally solve real life problems. This reminds me of the people who see no use at all for learning a language like Latin. I let such people know that learning some Latin helped me understand English and language as a whole.
8 posted on 07/29/2012 6:14:20 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("I love to hear you talk talk talk, but I hate what I hear you say."-Del Shannon)
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To: reaganaut1

I will tell you EXACTLY why they are “struggling”. The math teachers are les incompetents, is why. My son has had teachers making 50G plus or more at the high school level in our “excellent” school district who were dumber than a box of hammers about math or how to teach it. My son is a math natural who was talking about negative numbers at the age of four, so he told me he just taught himself out of the book. When he went to college, he tested into an avanced calculus class freshman year. However, that class was taught by a Chinese “TA” no one could make heads or tails out of what he was saying. So again, my son had to teach the subject to himself.

My daughter, a student at the best private school in the city and had a “genius” woman for a math teacher. The majority of we parents were also paying for tutors for our individual students who knew how to get an idea from teacher to student cogently, unlike the “genius” who was responsible for teaching the class. So on top of exorbitant private school tuition, we are paying taxes and for private tutors just to get middle school math basics. Oh and you dare not say anything about any of the teachers due to possible repercussions.


9 posted on 07/29/2012 6:15:13 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: reaganaut1

10 posted on 07/29/2012 6:15:52 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: reaganaut1

I’m one of those who just could not grasp Algebra. I the world ever comes to a crisis and I need to know what time a train that left Cleveland at midnight going 60 mph pass a plane from Baltimore, I’m screwed.


11 posted on 07/29/2012 6:15:57 AM PDT by Baynative (A man's admiration for absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for others)
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To: reaganaut1
two million college freshmen struggling with algebra

Two million college freshman who are paying (borrowing) 30K/year to learn what a "college student" should have known after 11th grade. The universities should not allow any student into college (borrowing big $) if they cannot pass basic competency tests. These basic competencies can be learned in an environment that does not cost $30K, and if they cannot learn these things they do not belong in college.

12 posted on 07/29/2012 6:16:12 AM PDT by BRL
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To: reaganaut1
I say this as a writer and social scientist

I stopped reading at this point. The author has no basis for constructing this article.

I have a BA in English and a graduate certificate in professional writing, but I went up to Calc III in college. Algebra is not impossible. We need to come up with more creative, practical ways to teach it.

13 posted on 07/29/2012 6:16:12 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: reaganaut1

Fitting article from the NYT.

After all, we know math is not a friend of liberals.


15 posted on 07/29/2012 6:16:57 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: reaganaut1

Michigan state rep (and now republican national committeeman) Dave Agema wants to require constitutional literacy from schools.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2833073/posts


17 posted on 07/29/2012 6:17:26 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: reaganaut1

Oh AND when she started at the private school, we had to do summer at Sylvan learning center which determined that at our “excellent” public elementary school, she had not been taught decimals or fractions. So much for the idiot “education” degree these “teachers” are required to obtain by the “Education Department” and the NEA which gives them the 50G plus salaries just or showing up


18 posted on 07/29/2012 6:17:36 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: reaganaut1
Gee, a "social Scientist" wants to ditch algebra.

So the free traders want to outsource all of our manufacturing jobs, jobs tailor made for about 50% of the population, so they can retrain to do what?

19 posted on 07/29/2012 6:17:51 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: reaganaut1

Geeez, we had algebra I-II-III starting in 6th grade 50s Jr HS (6-7-8); then geometry, trig and calc in 60s HS (9-10-11-12). Plus Latin and Classical Greek. Wasn’t easy; just required S-T-U-D-Y, something most kids refuse to do these days.

No wonder we have a country of *takers* and so few *makers*, anymore.


21 posted on 07/29/2012 6:19:17 AM PDT by Carriage Hill (All libs and most dems think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: reaganaut1

Liberal wet dream: If we can only eliminate logical thinking then we can avoid those grumpy old conservative arguments and base decisions on fallacies and feelings.


23 posted on 07/29/2012 6:19:26 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: reaganaut1

I think the real answer here is to take kids in the sixth grade and just plain drop math and algebra entirely... giving them a dose of business. You ought give each kid an entire year of projects relating to business math and making them ask questions over profit and loss. Make them consider the idea of moving from a small store-front with 2k square feet to a store with 6k square feet. They ought to analyze things and give you a number in regards to a relationship. This six plus six equal twelve deal is fine...but you need to ask yourself if you can make a true profit off two tractor rigs of apples. If you can’t make a profit....then why bother making the deal.

We are missing the real boat here....numbers matter, but you need to associate them with real things.


28 posted on 07/29/2012 6:20:47 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: reaganaut1; Cincinatus' Wife; wintertime

“As I wrote in a previous FR thread Requiring Algebra II in high school gains momentum nationwide a large fraction of the population does not have the capacity for abstract thinking to do Algebra II.”

I’ll agree that SOME fraction of the population cannot handle Algebra 2, just as some cannot handle arithmetic.

The problem is that when you throw calculators at little kids and teach them the “Lattice Method” for multiplying and dividing, they WILL end up being useless in higher-level math, and the WILL appear to be incapable of handling it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y29XL99qM6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI&feature=related

The problem is that there’s nothing to compare it to. Perhaps a controlled study of identical twins. One of the pair gets taught using the methods of the “educational experts”, while the other is taught correctly (i.e., no calculators, paper and pencil, and memorization). Then you compare the results after a 5 years. Most likely, the conclusion would be that the first batch is not able to handle higher-level math, while the second batch is more than capable.

Of course and experiment like that won’t happen (even though it actually did, once, by accident - but that’s for another post), because the Establishment will not like the conclusions. And the this type of experiment should NOT even be permitted, due to ethical concerns - i.e., crippling the futures of the first batch to be successful in society - because, in reality, this experiment would be no different than giving one batch of kids a good education and keeping the other batch of kids at home, doing nothing.


29 posted on 07/29/2012 6:20:47 AM PDT by BobL ( It's easy to be a saint when you have nothing on the line)
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