Posted on 07/11/2012 7:02:12 AM PDT by sickoflibs
Chris Hayes invites Stephen Moore on his show July 8, 2012 to set him up on Romney taking advantage of tax laws and so Moore nukes him on how rich hypocritical libs like Buffet claim that being patriotic is paying more taxes when they themselves hide under every loophole they can find to avoid paying more taxes. Moore stays on it and Hayes eventually gives up. MSNBC is NOT posting this part of the show.
HAYES: I want to bring in quickly, Stephen Moore, senior economics
writer for the “Wall Street Journal” editorial board. Former president of
Club for Growth.
It`s great to have you, Stephen. Thank you so much.
STEPHEN MOORE, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Good morning.
HAYES: We talk about the tax avoidance industry, things like
incorporating the Caymans or Bermuda, or corporations that are called tax
blockers that you set up so you can move assets through, do you think
there`s anything morally questionable in engaging in that kind of behavior?
Just matter of first principals before we get into the details.
MOORE: As long as it`s not illegal. I don`t think anyone is making
the allegation that Mitt Romney made illegal moves to illegally pay his
taxes.
I mean, I just think this whole discussion — look, the United States
should be the tax haven country. We were founded as a country where people
could come to pay less taxes and I think it`s an indictment of our current
tax system that rates have gotten so high that we`ve become so
uncompetitive.
HAYES: Rates have gotten lower.
MOORE: Rates have gone up and, in fact, you know, we`re going to go
up, way up next year if the tax bottom goes up.
My point is, look, when you talk about this patriotic duty to raise
taxes, I turn this around on all of you and say — wait a minute, all these
liberals are running around the country, rich liberals saying, we want to
pay more taxes, we want to pay more, and yet you look at the tax returns,
none of them have paid more taxes than they owe.
So, why are you indicting Mitt Romney for not paying more taxes than
he owes when all these liberals say they don`t do that? Everybody from
Warren Buffett to all these left-wing groups that say we have to raise
taxes on rich people.
.HAYES: First of all, those people aren`t running for president.
MOORE: No, that`s true.
HAYES: Second of all, they`re — there`s a distinction here between
what tax policy is and individual tax compliance and even with individual
tax compliance.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: Chris, you have to agree, though, Chris, they`re hypocrites.
If they say they want to pay more taxes and they don`t, that`s
hypocritical.
HAYES: No, I think that`s hypocritical. I think we actually
disagree on this. It`s like the Al Gore riding in planes issue, right? I
mean, the point is that there`s something called social policy. Social
policy is something you want to put into social contract.
The reason you want to put in social contract is because it has the
force of coercive law. The force of coercive law is the way that we bind
each other in a democratic governance and taxes are that.
MOORE: Chris, that`s not true. People — look, we have a military
of the people who are patriotic. They don`t — they don`t join the
military because they`re compelled to do so. They do it because they think
it`s their patriotic duty.
Similarly, liberals say they think it`s their patriotic duty to pay
more taxes but they don`t do it. So, to me, that is an act of hypocrisy.
If all the liberals who say they want to pay more taxes do so, we could
probably reduce this deficit by a lot.
HAYES: You know that is a silly and enumerant (ph) argument.
MOORE: No, it`s not.
HAYES: Of course, it is.
MOORE: Why would Warren Buffett pay more taxes if he says he wants
to?
HAYES: You think we`re going to reduce the deficit on Warren Buffett
having some kind —
MOORE: Liberals who say we can reduce the deficit by taxing rich
people.
HAYES: But taxation is fundamentally not a voluntary undertaking.
You can`t say —
MOORE: That`s not true. Chris, that is not true on the bottom line
of your tax form, it says if you want to pay more taxes and reduce the
deficit, you can do so. Liberals don`t do it.
HAYES: Getting back to Mitt —
MOORE: The most incredibly hypocritical things.
(CROSSTALK)
HAYES: Warren Buffett is not running for president and you want to
castigate unnamed liberals, right? We do have a tax return for the
president. We have tax return for the president for many years. We don`t
have the tax returns for Mitt Romney.
And in the course of compliance, I think there is a moral question
here about is it at all shameful or indefensible if you use every single
possible loophole, every single tax avoidance strategy, is that just a
squarely praiseworthy thing?
MOORE: You know, I hate the tax code. I`m a flat tax guy.
Literally, Chris, I think we should get rid of every single deduction and
loophole and tax carve out in the system
Link to video :
Stephen Moore nukes MSNBC Chris Hayes on rich liberals wanting to pay higher taxes from 7/8/12(link to video )
” I do know I don’t see Romney using anything personal against Obama in a similar way. Obama demands Romney’s tax returns be made public. Doesnt Obama have hidden records Republicans could demand as a counter, or any info he is hiding from voters? Romney appears terrified to return fire and he wants to play nice guy to independents by not being critical. Will that work? “
No, it won’t work. It never has.
Watching Obama’s constant assault on Romney's character on his work and period at Bain, his offshore accounts, his tax returns, him calling him a MR liar and a criminal and Romney refusing to attack Obama back and instead whining about being picked on hoping for voters sympathy (it's not happening for you Mitt), I am now seeing a repeat of the Maryland race between massive tax increase same-sex marriage Dem O Malley and weak RINO Bob Erhlich.
In that race the Dem O Malley constantly assaulted the RINO with character assaults ‘You cant trust him he's a liar” and Ehlich refused to fight back or even expand his issue list belong the single taxes(nothing on Maryland Dream Act, nothing on Maryland gay marriage and he was not trusted on the tax issue) so he got slaughtered and we had to watch it, although I swore off local news except the gym where I cant turn it off. I swear it looked like RINO Erhlich just ran to give the liberal Dem the election. It was painful to watch.
This is starting to look that way.
About three weeks ago some freeper told me he heard Rush say Romney was winning and he thought Romney would win in a landslide because of Rush's positive attitude.
I told him I must live on the planet Earth.
Obama is a gangster thug from Chicago. There is unimpeachable evidence of same. If Romney fails to attack Obama as a POLITICIAN, and as a MAN, he will lose!
What we really need(and I mean need BADLY), is another LEE ATWATER!!
From what I've seen, the idea that he's going to make the same mistake that McCain did in not attacking Bambi is truly off the mark. It's early, no worries yet.
” Bambi blew through 100 mil this past month and got nothing”
True. If this is a “Rope A Dope” scenario, it might work. After McCain practically handed the election to Obama, my paranoia is not an indication of insanity : )
My theory on that is :
1) The RINO club are worried about obama’s likable polls being much better than Romneys, so they are terrified to go after his person, Obama is NOT scared and is destroying Romney's person.
2) Romney has so many problems on so many specific issues that he is scared to get in a fight on anything but the ‘bad economy’ as default. He is terrified someone will end up mad at him, or catch him.
So Obama knows this and will try to make sure enough independents will not trust Romney to try to fix the economy. He attacks Romney's character using the weaknesses some of us saw they would: out of touch super rich guy, and pointing out/claiming how Romney's ‘plans’ are very similar to GWB’s. Now Romney is whining.
As Romney campaign says, Obama’s plan is to destroy Romney all while playing :”Above it all”
We got a lemon folks and it's rotted too.
:-)
*Crossing fingers there is a competent campaign strategery in place*
The Obamas have never paid anything, they’re kept by our enemies, or I should say, other enemies.
OMG. What an annoying little fruitcake that Chris Hayes is. Now I remember why I haven’t watched MSNBC since’08. Major drama queen alert!
:) Thanks
Hayes is real big on climate change, in fact he has a rule that he will not invite CC deniers on his show and MSNBC plays a min-commercial of him arguing for ‘dramatic reduction of carbon emissions’ while on a bicycle in Manhattan to work on a beautiful day.(Oh the joy. cant we all have that life???)
I happened to scan though the show with my DVR and it was a pretty much one sided show making fun of Republicans. However this segment was the gem as the Hayes interview with Moore slipped out of control. Moore was ready for Hayes line of attack and had his own attack planned. Notice how he wont give up and stays on point.(posting it took a bit of work though.)
Rarely do you see MSNBC Republican Guests go on the shows prepared. The trick to debate is to stay on the offensive.
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