Decisions decisions!
Posted on 06/21/2012 1:56:43 PM PDT by SENTINEL
Edited on 06/21/2012 5:09:21 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
As Ansel has asked you twice now, What was settled in our nation 150 years ago on polygamy?????
That was 1862...and only six years earlier -- 1856 -- The new Republicans announced their social issues agenda: They would take on the "twin relics of barbarism," they said...POLYGAMY and slavery...
In 1862, Lincoln then signed the Morrill anti-bigamy act into law. That was Congress just getting started on addressing polygamy more forcefully. That continued into the 1870s and 1880s, with Republicans placing more and more pressure on the Mormons.
In 1862, the second Mormon "prophet" was a polygamist with over 50 wives. Did he give them up? (No)
BlueMoose, did the 3rd Mormon "prophet" in the 1880s give up his wives? (No, he died, having lived the last few years hiding out all thru Utah...hiding from the feds)...Oh, and btw, the CURRENT Mormon regime in Salt Lake City STILL calls our federal government's prosecution of polygamists as "persecution."
The nerve of Salt Lake City's "general authorities." On the one hand, they play down Mormonism's embracement of polygamy -- never relaying in their book series on all their "prophets" that ANY of them were polygamists...often revealing only their first wives while ignoring the rest...and then...when they think they are only speaking to the Mormon faithful, they label prosecution efforts of polygamy as "persecution."
Source: CURRENT Lds church reference to 1885 time period of Taylor's life, page 202 of Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor, published in 2001. [Your church leaders, BlueMoose, should have red-faced shame]
BlueMoose, what about the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Lds "prophets?" Were they polygamists, too? (Yup...the 7th dying in 1945)
And the Lds privately solemnized about 250 additional "plural unions" tween 1890-1910...meaning that the LAST of the Mainstream Mormon polygamists didn't die out until the early 1960s!!!!
Then, in the 1960s, Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie announced that when the Mormon jesus returns, he will re-institute polygamy on planet earth!
(So much for Mormon general authorities -- who have left polygamous D&C 132 intact in their "scriptures" -- "settling" polygamy in our nation!)
All ya gotta do, Megan, is read about Jacob's household to realize the "sinners" part (Jacob was deceived into marrying sisters Rachel and Leah...he thought on his marriage night he was sleeping with Rachel; but his father-in-law had dumped Leah there):
30 When Rachel saw that she was not bearing Jacob any children, she became jealous of her sister. So she said to Jacob, “Give me children, or I’ll die!”
2 Jacob became angry with her and said, “Am I in the place of God, who has kept you from having children?”
3 Then she said, “Here is Bilhah, my servant. Sleep with her so that she can bear children for me and I too can build a family through her.”
4 So she gave him her servant Bilhah as a wife. Jacob slept with her, 5 and she became pregnant and bore him a son.
That competitive rivalry with a guy sleeping with four women went on -- after each woman gave him their servants to sleep with Jacob...(You're not claiming that is "Biblical" or God-honoring, are you???)
The two "wives" even started treating Jacob as a gigolo: 14 During wheat harvest, Reuben went out into the fields and found some mandrake plants, which he brought to his mother Leah. Rachel said to Leah, “Please give me some of your son’s mandrakes.” 15 But she said to her, “Wasn’t it enough that you took away my husband? Will you take my son’s mandrakes too?” “Very well,” Rachel said, “he can sleep with you tonight in return for your son’s mandrakes.” 16 So when Jacob came in from the fields that evening, Leah went out to meet him. “You must sleep with me,” she said. “I have hired you with my son’s mandrakes.” So he slept with her that night. (Genesis 30)
***********
Moving on from Genesis 30, let's look at what Solomon already knew by his teen years as far as what God's will on marriage was:
17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. (Deut. 17:17)
He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God... (1 Kings 11:3-4)
So...Megan...did you just erase Deut. 17:17 from your Bible????
And, another follow-up:
You will look, Megan, in vein, to find where God directed Abraham or Jacob to take up additional wives in the Genesis time period...(Even with Abraham sleeping with his wife's servant, God, Moses, Abraham, the Angel of the Lord, and Paul NEVER reference this sleep-over woman as his "wife"...only his original wife did...and what authority did she have???)
Actually, you'll find the monogamy model in Genesis 2:24: 24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh. (Jesus reiterated this in Matthew 19)
One flesh, Megan. You don't think "sister wives" -- "married" to the same polygamous man -- constitute a "one flesh" pattern, do you? Do you think "sister wives" are "one flesh???" Really??? (And wouldn't that open the door to endorsing lesbian "marriage"???)
Of course, beyond Genesis, there are other polygamists. Most of them, with perhaps the exception of David and Caleb, weren't noted for righteousness. And even David committed adultery and manslaughter -- and yes, he was a "sinner" who needed forgiveness (see Psalm 51).
Additionally, when posters want to somehow to present what I call "pious polygamy," they somehow manage to mention a few Old Testament characters, but somehow fail to mention all the thousands of pagan polygamists within history!!!!
King Mongut of Siam (Thailand) is said to perhaps be the polygamist record-holder with 9,000 wives...his female counterpart, Berber Queen Kahina, had 400 husbands. Other conqueror types, like Ghengis Khan and Attila the Hun, don't seem to make a "who's who in polygamy list" either...Why not?
So were these pagans practicing "pious" "plural marriage," Megan???
And just because the Bible references something, doesn't mean God endorses it as a widespread institution. For example, God even directed Hosea to take a prostitute wife, Gomer...she happened to continue her...how shall we say it? "Cottage industry" post-marriage and had children...
You're not claiming that just because the Bible references this, that you would recommend to your children and grandchildren to go out and marry prostitutes who keep that cottage industry going, are you???
But LORD; how can this BE??
History will PROVE that I have been shootin' a LOT of blanks!
Just like that crummy pistol I'll get in jail!
Visual lie told by SLC today:
http://josephsmith.net/josephsmith/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=0bda0fbab57f0010VgnVCM1000001f5e340aRCRD
Compare to what HISTORY has recorded:
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
bttt
Wow, this from the guy who takes death oaths to avange the "blood of the prophets" in the temple. sigh.
Moose, we do love you. We love you enough to contend for the truth, to try to extract you from the cult so you can be saved ! We love you enough to try to save your country from God's wrath by electing "Bill Clinton Heavy" in 2012.
If we didn't care, we wouldn't spend all this time and effort. Wake up. Want me to shut up and go away ? Go to your own sources and prove me wrong !
Let's look at the verse 17 to get the rest of the story
17 (NIV) ‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.
17 (KJV) Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
17 (NASB) You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him.
It is my duty as a Christian to rebuke the false teachings of the various sects of mormonism, and to point out the deceptive tactics used to 'legitimize' it. I do not share in the guilt for the sins of the false FLDS/LDS "prophet" Joseph Smith because I rebuke his heresies, and meet his followers and missionaries head on in public debate.
We mock and tempt God by considering the election of a cult leader to preside over our country.
Who are they to decide who can and cannot marry? If these people are in love, what’s the problem? /deep, deep sarcasm
Just disgraceful! I am more of a Christian than you are. And I don’t use religious bigotry to proclaim my “christianity!” It’s always amazing to me how FR has such a cadre of “christian bigots,” in the midst of a broader group of enlightened conservatives who can carry on a dialogue that’s predicated on decency. Oh, well in any large group there are always a small number of fruitcakes.
Bible thumping moron! How can you spend your time just writing down all this “scriptural evidence” of just “how right” you are? You are wasting your life here on the earth with this nonsense, when you could be living life to the fullest. Which is what Christianity is all about. I feel sorry for you! You remind me of the way the Mormons were wasting their lives “trying to be good enough” by similar means. I have no interest in “becoming your kind of Christian.”
Hate and condemn me all you want, I will still speak the truth out of love, in order to help save. A servant is no greater than his master, and Christ too was hated and condemned.
See my post to Elsie. I have better things to do today. Good luck on your “mission,” I’m more interested in living my life as best I can and leave all this nonsense to folks like you. Do you realize that you are operating just like the religion that you despise?
You mean the one where you degrade and call her a moron for quoting the bible ?...Then insist that there is a different "kind of Christianity".
I contend it is you who is acting like a mormon.
There is one truth, one Christ, one word and one flock to protect.
Good day.
" I was born and raised as a Mormon. While it is no longer my faith of choice, your ignorance (or perhaps is just your looney born again Christian mentality) of Mormonism is astounding! I thought as “christians” you guys were taught to be tolerant of others views. Guess that’s more bull$hit from your suede shoe “minister.” You know, the guy who looks and acts like Jim Bakker and has a wife who is spending all your money and puts on make up with a trowel!"
I naturally described your post in this way, ""We know he isn’t Mormon, and he sure doesn’t sound Christian, but we don’t know what religion he is today.""
You said you aren't Mormon, and to me your post was incredibly mocking of and anti-Christian, yet now with great hostility you proclaim yourself as a super-prideful Christian.
Why not fill us in on what religion you are? What is a "looney born again Christian", what is a "suede shoe “minister"? What kind of Christian attacks other people for being Christian and defends Mormonism?
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