Posted on 06/12/2012 12:08:38 AM PDT by quesney
BISMARCK, N.D. — Since Californians shrank their property taxes more than three decades ago by passing Proposition 13, people around the nation have echoed their dismay over such levies, putting forth plans to even them, simplify them, cap them, slash them. In an election here on Tuesday, residents of North Dakota will consider a measure that reaches far beyond any of that — one that abolishes the property tax entirely.
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Jim Wilson/The New York Times A group of Edgeley residents, including Nicole Gibson, who held a “Vote No on Measure 2” sign, gathered after the debate. “I would like to be able to know that my home, no matter what happens to my income or my life, is not going to be taken away from me because I can’t pay a tax,” said Susan Beehler, one in a group of North Dakotans who have pressed for an amendment to the state’s Constitution to end the property tax. They argue that the tax is unpredictable, inconsistent, counter to the concept of property ownership and needless in a state that, thanks in part to wildly successful oil drilling, finds itself in the rare circumstance of carrying budget reserves.
“When,” Ms. Beehler asked, “did we come to believe that government should get rich and we should get poor?”
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Property tax = the perpetual mortgage. There is no private property ownership.
Remember: "Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress". And distress to Widows is not a good idea before God.
$1,500 per month? In Hempstead? Are you sure? My escrow, which includes property tax and insurance isn’t much more than that for the entire year.
OK, let me frame it differently: here in NJ, we pay for our local services (including cops, teachers, firemen, public works, etc.) from our local property taxes. In other states, these are paid from a more centralized pool of money (which is raised from state income taxes or some other means); in the end, the residents of the state are still paying their cops, teachers, etc. - it is just a question of “how”. In NJ nobody wants their taxes to be used to pay for the services on the “permanently dependent reservations” (Newark, Camden, etc.); they want to pay for their own little corner of the world instead (where their vote is one of fifteen thousand, instead of one in three million).
People who live in areas where local services are not paid by local taxes end up subsidizing their urban toilets to a larger extent, since the wealth is re-distributed from a higher level. You are going to get the bill anyway; when you move away from local taxes you get someone else’s bill as well.
Don’t you have tax abatement programs for situations like the widow?
In VA, our local governments set and collect the tax and the state has absolutely nothing to do with it. I didnt realize it was done any other way. I agree with you. Eliminating the tax gives the state full control over local government revenues.
TONS of women like that in New England; where people pay confiscatory levels of property tax 'for the children'...my wife's grandmother lost her home for that very reason.
“Government is best closest to the people.”
You are absolutely right; they prevent taxpayers from paying someone else’s bills.
For people nostalgic about the Founding Fathers, I don’t know if many FReepers are aware that voting was originally limited to people paying property taxes. There was a reason for that: they had a stake in the future of an area that wasn’t shared by all of the residents. Once that requirement was removed, you had people casting votes to see what they could get from other people’s money (the modern Democratic Party).
Exactly. Quit paying your property taxes and you will see who REALLY owns 'your' property in short order...
Could we get some clarification here? Are they talking about school taxes here, or just general property axes. In most areas, school taxes are the preponderance of what is generally termed “Real Estate” or property taxes..( when I left the NY suburbs in 2007, school taxes were 72% of my total property tax bill. School districts are separate entities, often with DIFFERENT geographical boundaries than the underlying municipalities..they propose their own budgets and assessment rates.
“Eliminating the tax gives the state full control over local government revenues.”
Just as importantly, it gives the state control of the expenditures. Affirmative action would be taken to a whole new level as rural and suburban revenues are dumped into urban toilets to buy votes. This was happening here in NJ with “state aid” until the state ran out of money; since we have local property taxes, our money couldn’t be used to save the jobs of the urban teachers and cops (who were never funded by the populations they served anyway).
“Why should we vote yes each time, should we give the town a blank check?”
Governor Christie fixed that in NJ with a property tax cap; when teachers get 4% raises, and taxes can only increase 2%, untenured teachers and cops lose their jobs. This isn’t just theory, it already happened (and is why Obama is talking about re-hiring teachers and cops).
tax abatement programs in Nassau County => $1500 is reduced to $1495.95. My home is just north of Hempstead and my tax bill is substantially more than $1500 a month.
Who is supposed to pay to maintain the road in front of the widows’ homes? Who is to pay for the ambulance when she falls and can’t get up? The fact of the matter is that people have to pay for these things.
Here in NJ your property taxes are frozen when you reach 65; it is an attempt to acknowledge that people have their incomes adjusted when they retire. It isn’t a working solution because freezing someone’s taxes at $7,500 isn’t much help.
This will define the political lines: a TRUE democrat never saw a tax that they wouldn’t like to raise and a TRUE republican never saw a tax that they liked.
Yesterday, Rush was reading an article that said North Dakota has a surplus of $4 billion and climbing, I think the roads could be covered in that.
Yesterday, Rush was reading an article that said North Dakota has a surplus of $4 billion and climbing, I think the roads could be covered in that.
My thought also. They will change this if oil keeps dropping.
I’m sorry, I’m still not buying what you’re selling.
What about unoccupied or undeveloped properties? Why should any tax be paid at all for those? Why should every property owner pay for public schools?
The property tax is a load of crap, and should be abolished. Replace all that crap with service fees, charged only to the users. Problem solved!
Clarification here? If you want clarification of ND property tax, maybe this would answer your question. I own a shade under 50 acres with a home, out buildings and other improvements. My total tax was $550 for 2011. It was spent as follows: County - 42%, Township - 17%, School - 37%, Fire - 2%, Water - 1%, State - 1%.
Next year it is to go up about 50%.
I called the county to find out why such a large increase. They said it was because our property was undervalued.
However, the media is constantly saying the oil boom is coming to our neck of the woods, and our infrastructure is lacking, they want it up to speed before it gets here. I see this as a valid reason for wanting more money. The county needs it for the roads, the schools need to expand.
The oil trucks flat outright ruin roads, and the influx of new folks over crowd the schools.
Because of this, I favor having the excess oil revenue make up the difference. They now have producers less than 10 miles from our home, and one staked off less than 3 miles, and a proposed well less than a mile. The quality of oil coming out of the ground is very close to diesel fuel, so the refinery being built in the state to make mostly diesel.
So I see the need to upgrade our community, but the oil should pay for it.
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