Who knows the names of these children and if any of them were foreign born?
I ran across the CORRESPONDENCE between AZ Secretary of State Bennett and the jokers in Honolulu. I’ll post it and the link.
And yes, it’s worth reading it all - won’t take as long as you think.
On Monday, TPM filed a public records request for the correspondence between the Hawaii government and the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office. The results show Bennett and his staff grew ever more impatient with the slow pace of Hawaii’s response before the secretary finally took to a local conservative radio talk show on Thursday to voice his concerns.
“Hello Jill. I just left you a brief voice mail message,” Arizona Deputy Secretary of State Jim Drake wrote in an email to a Hawaii attorney on May 1. “I am wondering whether you can give me a ballpark timeframe on our request. As you know, the closer we get to November, the more my phone rings. I believe that having Hawaii’s response on hand might help to quell the inquiries!”
Deputy Attorney General Jill Nagamine’s response? “We need more information to substantiate that you are eligible to receive verification.”
MORE ON THE CORRESPONDENCE, Source is TPM,
Here now is the correspondence chain, starting with an email from Nagamine, the Hawaii deputy attorney general, which apparently followed a phone conversation between her and Bennett. The secretary’s first written request comes after that. Also included at the end are two emails Bennett sent to birthers who had been heckling him about the fact that Obama was still on track to be on Arizona’s ballot. TPM has edited out things like home addresses, email addresses and phone numbers.
—
From: Jill T. Nagamine
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 8:15 PM
To: Bennett, Ken
Subject: Link to Hawaii laws and the Department of Health webpage
Hi Ken—
So sorry I’ve taken so long to get back to you. I may take a few more days to get your final response about what we can verify and how we will do so. I have been tied up with some legislative deadlines that take precedence. To start with, here are the links that I mentioned to you.
The first link is to the Department of Health’s website that was created in response to the high volume of inquiries about the President’s birth certificate. It includes the press releases issued by the former Republican-appointed Director of Health.
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
The second is to section 338-18, Hawaii Revised Statutes, which governs the confidentiality of vital records. Let me direct you to paragraph (g) which relates to verification of records.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm
Another link is to section 338-14.3, Hawaii Revised Statutes, which pertains to verification.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0014_0003.htm
The last link is to all of chapter 338, Hawaii Revised Statutes, Hawaii’s vital statistics law.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/
Jill T. Nagamine
Deputy Attorney General
State of Hawaii
—
March 30, 2012
Hawaii Department of Health
Office of Health Status Monitoring
Vital Records Issuance Section
P.O. Box 3378
Honolulu, HI 96801
Ladies and gentlemen:
Enclosed please find a request for a verification in lieu of a certified copy for the birth record of Barack Hussein Obama II. In addition to the items to be verified in the attached form, please verify the following items from the record of birth:
Department of Health File #151 61 10641
Time of birth: 7:24 p.m.
Name of hospital: Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital
Age of father: 25
Birthplace of Father: Kenya, East Africa
Age of mother: 18
Birthplace of mother: Wichita, Kansas
Date of signature of parent: 8-7-1961
Date of signature of attendant: 8-8-1961
Date accepted by local registrar: August-8 1961
Additionally, please verify that the attached copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama is a true and accurate representation of the original record in your files.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
Sincerely,
Ken Bennett
Arizona Secretary of State
—
From: Bennett, Ken
To: Jill T. Nagamine
Date: 04/16/2012 01:48 PM
Subject: RE: Link to Hawaii laws and the Department of Health webpage
Dear Jill,
Thank you for speaking with me several weeks ago and providing the helpful links below. I sent a request for a verification in lieu of a certified copy of President Obama’s birth record to the Dept. of Health on March 30th. I was just wondering if you knew whether the request was received and how long it usually takes to process? Thanx.
Ken Bennett
Arizona Secretary of State
—
From: Jill T. Nagamine
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:39 PM
To: Bennett, Ken
Subject: RE: Link to Hawaii laws and the Department of Health webpage
Ken—
Thank you for this heads up. This is the first I heard of it. I will check with my client to see if they received your request.
Jill
Jill T. Nagamine
Deputy Attorney General
State of Hawaii
—
To: Jill T. Nagamine
From: Drake, Jim
Date: 05/01/2012 11:52AM
Subject: Request from the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office
Hello Jill. I just left you a brief voice mail message. I am wondering whether you can give me a ballpark timeframe on our request. As you know, the closer we get to November, the more my phone rings. I believe that having Hawaii’s response on hand might help to quell the inquiries! Thanks in advance. Jim
Jim Drake
Deputy Secretary of State
—
From: Jill T. Nagamine
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 5:11 PM
To: Drake, Jim; Bennett, Ken
Subject: Re: Request from the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office
Dear Mr. Bennett and Mr. Drake—
My apologies for not responding immediately. I have recently been away from my office a great deal, including today. My client, the Department of Health, has forwarded your request for verification of President Obama’s birth record to me. We need more information to substantiate that you are eligible to receive verification. Hawaii Revised Statutes, section 338-18(g), provides:
(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:
(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;
(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;
(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;
(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or
(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes.
As the Secretary and I initially discussed, it appears that you might be eligible for verification of the record based on subparagraph (2), but we need to see what your authority is “to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of your activities.” Will you send me a copy of your law that allows this, and will you send me information that shows:
(1) What list are you updating?
(2) Is it your normal procedure to update all entries on your list by requiring birth data verification?
(3) Are you requiring birth data verification of all entries on your list, rather than just targeting one name on your list? (please provide evidence that you are doing so)
You may address your response directly to me, and I will relay it to my client.
Thank you,
Jill T. Nagamine
Deputy Attorney General
State of Hawaii
—
From: Bennett, Ken
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:12 PM
To: Jill T. Nagamine; Drake, Jim
Subject: RE: Request from the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office
Dear Ms. Nagamine:
As the chief elections officer for the State of Arizona and pursuant to Arizona Revised Statutes, sections 16-212, 16-301, 16-502, 16-507 and others, my office is tasked with quadrennially compiling a list of candidates for the Office of the President of the United States. This list is then officially “certified” by my office and transmitted to the fifteen counties for creation of the official ballots. The list is generated in the “ordinary course” of my office’s activities (every four years) and it is certainly made for a “legitimate government purpose” (elections).
Based on the above representation, I believe that my office has strictly and expressly complied with all of the elements found in Hawaii Revised Statutes, section 338-18(g).
I understand your client’s initial trepidation in responding to this request given the significant amount of email, fax and phone call traffic that this issue has spawned. My office too has received numerous constituent requests and I agree with Director Fuddy’s assertion in her letter of April 25, 2011 that the sheer volume of inquires has “been disruptive to staff operations and have strained State resources.” However, I am concerned that a rejection of a request by another State’s chief elections official will dramatically exacerbate an already untenable situation.
Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
Ken Bennett
Secretary of State
—
From: Jill T. Nagamine
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 3:38 PM
To: Bennett, Ken
Subject: RE: Request from the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office
Dear Mr. Bennett:
I am in receipt of your email dated May 17, 2012. As I have informed you and Mr. Drake, Hawaii law requires that for verification of a vital record the requestor must satisfy the requirements of section 338-18(g), Hawaii Revised Statutes, which provides:
(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:
(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;
(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;
(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;
(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or
(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes.
I asked you for legal authority that establishes your right to obtain verification, and your email of May 17, 2012 provides me with references to Arizona Revised Statutes 16-212, 16-301, 16-502, 16-507, and unnamed others. These statutes seem to deal with election of presidential electors, nomination of candidates for printing on official ballot of general or special election, form and contents of ballot, and presentation of presidential candidates on ballot, but none, as far as I can tell, establish the authority of the Secretary of State to maintain and update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of his activities. I researched other sections of the Arizona Revised Statutes and was unable to find the necessary authority.
If I have missed something, please let me know. My client stands willing to provide you with the verification you seek as soon as you are able to show that you are entitled to it.
Thank you,
Jill T. Nagamine
Deputy Attorney General
State of Hawaii
Man! Talk about stalling!
I think Mr. Bennett is beginning to see the kind of roadblocks that have been established.
The difference is that Mr. Bennett has some real authority.
I predict that Mr. Bennett will be taken to court by the Obama election team, after he refuses to put Obama on the ballot.
Nagamine and Hawaii are playing silly stupid games.
So Jill, why don't you show us where it says in Hawaiian law statute that Hawaii has to have an out-of-state law statute for you to legally comply with HRS 338-18(g)? Hmmmmmmmmm...Jilly? The Arizona Secretary of State has shown you his credentials and he has given you Jilly sufficient legal reasoning for the state of Hawaii to do their statutory duty in fulfilling HRS 338-18(g)(2).
These clowns in Hawaii are so full crap.
Thanks for posting this. Very enlightening. Those people haven’t changed a bit, have they, LF? And if they got a response to their request within a day they obviously made the request to the AZ SOS office, not anybody in HI. If it was up to the HI people, they’d have gotten what they asked for after about 2 years.
Even if Ken wouldn’t qualify under #2 in the verification section of HRS 338-18, he would qualify under #3.
Nagamine is trying to say that he doesn’t qualify under #2 because she looked in ARS and couldn’t find anything about the SOS compiling a list. Apparently she doesn’t think the ballot has a list on it. She needs to look at 16-502 (found at http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/16/00502.htm&Title=16&DocType=ARS )
where it says (emphasis mine):
“E. The LISTS of the candidates of the several parties shall be arranged with the names of the parties in descending order according to the votes cast for governor for that county in the most recent general election for the office of governor, commencing with the left-hand column.”
Bennett is absolutely correct to make the default setting that of Obama NOT being on the ballot. These people can stall forever, arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. But they need to know the ballgame has changed. They are BEHIND in this game, and if they go into a stall, they’re just going to insure that THEY lose.
Who knows the names of these children and if any of them were foreign born? All that Ms. Nagamine seems to be doing is what the Hawaii DOH and AG have done in response to previous requests. I'd describe the Hawaii state government mindset as anal-rententive.