Posted on 05/22/2012 8:47:57 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
The stunning expansion of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Washington, D.C., area is profiled in a long, interesting and meticulously accurate CNN story that suggests "the nation's capital has become a Mormon stronghold, with Latter-day Saints playing a big and growing role in the Washington establishment."
-SNIP-
"It's hard to point to federal legislation or a White House initiative that bears distinctly Mormon fingerprints," Gilgoff writes, "while it's easy to do the same for other faiths." He cites as an example a recent White House "compromise" on contraception funding, which he says was "mostly a reaction to pressure from Roman Catholic bishops."
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
Where exactly is that railroad bridge? I used to live in Rockville and my girlfriend in Silver Spring so I’ve driven that area many times. I just can’t remember that bridge!
What a line. First, it’s the Mormons discriminate against the poor blacks. Now, the blackest of the black places in the United States (Washington DC) is a Mormon stronghold. It’s time the propagandists take their sorry bigotry and go away.
“So...you’re weirdly claiming that there’s not millions of vulnerable kids out there...elementary-school kids...some high school kids...who might be taught by Romney’s bully pulpit that the Book of Mormon is the ‘word of God’...and that a certain % of them will have their Mormon road moment carved out with that as the genesis?”
Not so weird, really, considering people have sworn on the Koran without the sky falling. Not that Mormonism is as legitimate as Islam(if you go purely by numbers), nor that other oaths are as publicized as the president’s. But whatever legitimacy Mormonism would gain from the Romney presidency would arise from just that: Romney being president. Not on what prop he used in the ceremony.
“Tell you what, then...let’s be consistent...let’s get other government officials — your local teachers for example — and get them to bring the Quran into your local classrooms and present that as a sacred holy book of God before vulnerable third thru sixth graders, eh?”
You’re carrying yourself away. That is a frivolous example, and I don’t need to honor it with response. Suffice to say Romney swearing on the book of Mormon would not imply, let alone explicitly declare, that it is a holy book. All it would mean is Romney thinks it to be so, which you could infer from him being a Mormon. It would say nothing about it being equivalent to the Bible, though some could walk away with that impression.
But like I said, I’d think simply electing Romney itself would grant all the legitimacy to Mormonism it could expect. The swearing in ceremony is neither here nor there, as it is not about swearing on something with objective value but with value to the swearer. If I ask you to swear on your mother’s grave, for instance, it would still be meaningful to me because it’s meaningful to you, though I don’t care a whit more about your dead mother than any random dead person.
The oath of office ceremony is different, you may say, because the ritual is for everyone, not merely the new president. Well, if it’s so dang important that the Bible be involved, don’t elect a Mormon.
“Furthermore, if Obama won...and having won the second term, he could begin to ‘remove his mask,’ what if Obama elected to swear on the Quran?”
If that happened, then people would know he lied, and many a conspiracy theorist would die of happiness.
“You wouldn’t have any issues with that?”
Yes, but I don’t see the relevance. I would have issues with it because, like I said, it would mean Obama is a bold-faced liar. I wouldn’t have a problem with it being a Koran that he sweared on as such. I wouldn’t have a problem with a Muslim who wasn’t Obama being elected as such, and would fully expect them to swear on the Koran rather than the Bible.
“Pathetic...poorly thought-out thought processes there...because there’s no way you can be consistent in this!!!!!!!!”
What’s the consistency problem? If it’s a bad thing for Obama to have been a secret Muslim and for schools to officially declare the Koran a holy book I cannot allow Romney to swear on the book of Mormon? That does not follow. You are off your meds.
“Keith Ellison isn’t POTUS. There’s a whole world of difference”
There is, but a difference of degree, not kind. Romney swearing in on the book of Mormon wouldn’t make the book of Mormon as legitimate as the Bible for those paying attention any more than Ellison’s swearing in did for the Koran for those who were watching. What they swear on depends on what is important to them.
It being involved in a ceremony with such publicity would increase the number of rubes who take it to mean more than it means, yes. But they would be rubes, and no one need listen to them. If it still bothers you, don’t elect a Mormon.
“I’m quite sure the US populace would frown on it.”
Yeah, but so what? It shouldn’t, firstly. More importantly if it doesn’t bother them enough not to elect a Mormon, they get what they deserve.
"What a line. First, it’s the Mormons discriminate against the poor blacks."...I personally sat in a pew at mormon churches and heard leaders preach against allowing white/black marriages. This is not a falsehood.
"Now, the blackest of the black places in the United States (Washington DC) is a Mormon stronghold." The emphasis was on the lock that mormons have on many, many US government positions in DC. I have seen boasts regarding this very thing posted here by FR mormons, citing recruiters for the CIA, FBI etc sending recruiters to the mormon university, BYU.
In any event, between the articles by the Obama campaign and the boasts by various mormon entities there will be a plethora of articles, stories, videos about mormonism over the next few months...enjoy!
Are you aware that the Deseret News is a SLC lds publication?
for later
That is something that I will NOT do.
But the article was written by CNN.
Do you think America can defeat the Evil of Islam without the hand of the Almighty, do you think his will is encouraged by electing a person from an equally incorrect faith...
There are no Mormon haters or bigots. The only ones who generally say that are Mormons as they play the "victim" card. No different then the Progressives who cry victim at the hands of Conservatives when truth is revealed they don't want to hear.
Mormons pick their next "prophets" -- once they get to a certain level -- by the calendar. All it would take is one elderly Mormon "prophet" who might be in an early Alzheimer stage or some senile-based decision to creep in -- and presto -- a Mormon POTUS is at the 100% beck & call as a "puppet" of that "prophet."
Mormon leaders haven't exactly been "shy" about this sort of potential puppetry...read the chart below and become literate on Mormon leader bleedover history into politics...(And, keep in mind, that Joseph Smith himself declared himself to be a POTUS candidate the year he died)
Read the chart below. Chart by Colofornian
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) |
|
| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney? Ya hear that Jon Huntsman?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt? Still listening, Jon?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt? What say ye Jon?) | |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] |
1 - A LDS perspective on Muhammed (LDS.org)
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng
2 - U.S. Muslims share friendship, similar values with Mormons (LA Times, published in 2008)
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/02/local/me-morlims2
3 - Mormonism and Islam: Commonality and Cooperation Between Abrahamic Faiths (March 10 & 11, 2011 - Utah Valley University)
http://www.uvu.edu/religiousstudies/mormonismandislam/
4 - Ask a Mormon: What do Mormons think of Muslims (March 2010 - MormonWoman.org)
http://mormonwoman.org/2010/03/15/ask-a-mormon-woman-what-do-mormons-think-about-islam/
5 - Mormons and Muslims break fast together (Ramadan 2010 - Deseret News)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705386347/Mormons-Muslims-break-the-fast-in-Southern-California.html
6 - Islamic Translation Service (Brigham Young University)
http://meti.byu.edu/islamic.php
7 - Muslims attending BYU focus on similarities between Islam, LDS tenets (Deseret News - Dec 2009)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353014/Muslims-attending-BYU-focus-on-similarities-between-Islam-LDS-tenets.html
I take it that you neither have been to hell, nor take concern re: Jesus' words about hell...
So further destroying the cause of conservatism and possibly the very nation itself is dandy a long as you get your jollies...
Good to know...
The other is there was truly a hue and cry throughout the land about his Roman Catholic religion. People were sure the Pope would have an influence on the running of the country. It was said that old ladies in some protestant churches were openly weeping about an imagined RC takeover, etc. My Mom, and her quilting circle, was one of them.
I hope we can stay on the issues and ability to govern.
Had JFK lived, who knows what the influence of the Catholic church might have had on him...also, did JFK make s solem oath to his church as Romney has,
"You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
This vow is made by every "worthy" mormon who takes part in their temple ritual. Haven't seen evidence that JFK ever took an oath like that.
BTW, this is an "issue" that should be recognized.
The article I posted this thread from was a Deseret News article endorsing the CNN article.
Law of Consecration as part of LDS temple ritual.
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