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To: BlackElk
Hoefling for POTUS!

My toater has as much a chance of winning. I understand wanting to vote for a "sinless" man, but such hasn't esxisted for over 2,000 years. Per the Bible, it seems that blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the one unforgivable sin - the rest look exactly the same in the eyes of the Lord - a sin is a sin is a sin and the penaly for all sins is death. Lacking a sinless man to vote for, I'm more apt to vote for one who might knock Obama out and I cannot discount Obama's "Give me some space until my next elextion is over..." speech. Accident? Or was God letting us know something else? I can't answer that and neither can you. Do what's in your heart and I'll do what's in mine. If it has to be the lesser of two evils, so be it.

I suppose that, Biblically speaking, your plan to allow Obama another term might speed up the inevitable fall into chaos that will occur before He comes back. But I'm also not going to purposely try to move God's Hand - some nutjob in Iran is already trying to do that. Good day/God Bless.

349 posted on 05/20/2012 6:24:52 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: trebb; EternalVigilance; Windflier
Where does your toater (toaster?) stand on saving the babies, blocking any and all attempts to normalize rump ranging and other perversions as "marriage," on the freedom of firearms to be owned by any and all citizens, kept and borne as the Founders intended, on establishing and maintaining and using a "kick ass" foreign policy exerted by a beefed up US military, and the verrrry important priority of purging the money changers from the GOP along with the shapeshifters and the etch-a-sketchers, and where does he/she/it stand on persecuting the Roman Catholic Church to which I belong? Romney has already done that and Obozo is (literally?) hell bent on joining him in persecuting the Roman Catholic Church. No Catholic worthy of the name would vote for Caligula, Nero, Diocletian, Obozo or the Massachusetts slimebag and for that very reason.

That's an interesting but false theology of sin that you express and which makes it understandable that, as a Christian with such a theology, you feel comfortable voting for one AntiChrist over the other because, after all, YOUR Antichrist is a smidgeon better than THEIR Antichrist. I am a Roman Catholic and I don't posture as a Scriptural scholar. Nor should you.

Catholics do not share and never have shared the notion that if you've seen one sin you've seen 'em all. That theory would put Moses in hell for tapping that rock twice, Peter in hell for lopping off the servant's ear through excess enthusiasm for Jesus Christ, Paul in hell for murdering St. Stephen for the Sanhedrin, ad so forth.

I suspect that there are many in reformed churches who share your notion but will not give Romney a free pass to persecute Catholicism or other churches of orthodox traditional morality, kill babies, cheerlead "gay" everything, etc. Plenty of Catholics too, and Orthodox Jews, and Orthodox Christians and a lot of other folks, believer`s and non-believers. See the upcoming movie "For the Greater Glory" in which Andy Garcia plays an atheist general of the Cristero armies of Mexicans who waged revolution against the communist Mexican government that regularly martyred Catholics and their priests. It is said that the movie is meant to be the Mexican Braveheart. It also feature Peter O'Toole as a martyred priest and Eva Longoria as (I believe) the general's wife.

The general was married to a Catholic woman but led the Catholic armies because he believed in religious freedom and proudly bore the slogan (Viva Cristo Rey! or Long Live Christ the King!). Now, I don't doubt that Tom Hoefling and I would have a difference or two on theology but I don't think he would have hesitated for a second, if he had lived in 1920s Mexico, to become a Reformed Cristero. I would have had his back and he mine. I don't think you would have done that. You would have been too busy making nuanced calculations as to which servant of Lucifer in the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) might be less likely to raise your taxes or regulate your business or whatever as Calles' putative successor. Maybe you would accept special deals from Calles and/or Obregon to be a government stoolpigeon and sell out the martyrs. Above all, we must sell our souls to practicality and phony pragmatism, right? How about: Shoot 'em all! Dismember their putrid corpses and piss on their graves (a little Irish touch there!). Viva Cristo Rey!

I will NOT vote for Obozo. Nor will I vote for Romney. For precisely the same reasons. For 44 years of POTUS elections, I have voted GOP. They want my vote from now on? They'll have to EARN it. If you are disappointed, toooo bad because that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Since your toater (toaster?) is neither Obozo nor the Massachusetts serial liar, baby-killer, marriage destroyer, gun grabber, etc., then your toater (toaster?) deserves at least a tentative hearing. As you seem to acknowledge, however, Tom Hoefling has set a very High Standard for your Toater (toaster?) to exceed. Toater or no toater, I expect to vote for Tom Hoefling as my brother in Christ. Sorry about you!

361 posted on 05/20/2012 10:24:26 AM PDT by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey! Tom Hoefling for POTUS! Viva Cristo Rey)
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To: trebb; Elsie
I understand wanting to vote for a "sinless" man, but such hasn't esxisted for over 2,000 years.

Well, I guess Trebb, you're not very well "read up" on Mormonism. You see, per Mormon doctrine, Mitt Romney is ALREADY a "god in embryo" -- on his way to full-grown godhood. (And the Mormon gods only let perfectos become full-grown "gods")

Want the evidence? See for yourself:

Many people know of Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th "prophet" of the Lds church (1973-1985), as the man who allowed blacks to become Mormon priests in 1978.

But did you know Mormonism teaches you are all "gods in embryo"??? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)

Did you know that Mormonism teaches the false "gospel" of self-transformation -- of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps to become a god? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)

Spencer W. Kimball on these very topics:

1969 "Being a GOD IN EMBRYO with the seeds of godhood neatly tucked away in him, and with the power to become a god eventually, man need not despair...he must...transform himself..." (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 173-174)

A couple he was advising in Kimball's office "did not understand that forgiveness is not a thing of days or months or even years but is a matter of intensity of feeling and transformation of self...This couple seemed to have no conception of satisfying the Lord, of paying the total penalties and obtaining a release..." (Ibid, p. 156)

To Kimball, you had to "pay the total penalties" for your sin -- vs. that being a role occupied by the true Jesus Christ.

September, 1974: Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. Source: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6057 (Spencer W. Kimball speech entitled Be Ye Therefore Perfect 9/17/74 devotional address @ BYU)

1975: Man is created in the image of God. He is a GOD IN EMBRYO. He has the seeds of godhood within him, and he can, if he is normal, pick himself up by his bootstraps and literally move himself from where he is to where he shows he should be." Source: http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/LovevsLust.pdf, "Love vs. Lust," Spencer W. Kimball, Provo: BYU Publications, 1975

November 1977: Self-mastery, then, is the key, and every person should study his own life, his own desires and wants and cravings, and bring them under control. Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. To be perfect, one can turn to many areas as a starting place....As we have stated before, the way to perfection seems to be a changing of one’s life—to substitute the good for the evil in every case. Source: By President Spencer W. Kimball An address given to students of Weber State College, Ogden, Utah on 4 November 1977 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=244ed0640b96b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

July, 1978 Ensign Magazine: Lds church officially endorses Kimball Weber State College comments by publishing them in their official magazine

This quote also becomes part of Chapter 19 of what Lds officially teach college students in their Institute curricula: See http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/doc-gosp-11-20-19.asp

370 posted on 05/20/2012 1:21:46 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: trebb; Elsie
I understand wanting to vote for a "sinless" man, but such hasn't esxisted for over 2,000 years.

So given the evidence of Mormons-believe-Romney's-a-god-in-embryo (evidence in last post)...

The issue isn't which sinless MAN to vote for...
...Rather, it's which candidate who isn't an idol that elevates idolatry shouldn't we vote for...

Since for many Dems, they can conceive of no greater power than either the POTUS or Supreme Court, for many of them, Obama (& all future Dem POTUS candidates & Supreme Court justices) become their functional "Messiahs."

Therefore, I choose to vote for neither...
...a functional "Messiah" (Obama or future Dem POTUS candidates)
...OR the idol, Mitt Romney...

Why buy into an open idolatrous tie-in with your vote?

371 posted on 05/20/2012 1:26:06 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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