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To: Nachum

Jonah is throwing himself under the bus here.

Yes Jesus ordered disciples to carry swords to the Garden of Gethsemane but only as a self-defense warning to Temple guards that might try and take the disciples.

When one of his disciple drew his sword Jesus told him to stop.

I am sure Jesus saw his disciples as his witness who would one day be full of the Holy Spirit. He wished they to be preserved for the work ahead after his ascension.

The swords were only to keep the Temple guards at bay while Jesus told them it was He they came for, to leave the others.

Jesus was not violent at all and never espoused it.


10 posted on 05/17/2012 1:28:21 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Hostage

Jesus came to earth for the purpose of being unjustly crucified on our behalf.

Our purpose on this earth is different.


13 posted on 05/17/2012 1:33:50 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Hostage
Jesus was not violent at all and never espoused it.

He sure does swing that sword well in revelation for a non-violent person. He also directs his people in the OT to kill an awful lot of people (violently) for someone who doesn't espouse violence.

Jesus is violent when the situation calls for violence. (Such as clearing the temple) and peaceful when it calls for peace. He never said we could not, or should not, defend the innocents.

16 posted on 05/17/2012 1:39:24 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Hostage

Theoretical of course....since I saw nothing in that scripture that supports Jesus issuing that warning over concerns over the temple guards.


27 posted on 05/17/2012 1:58:11 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Kiss the Son!)
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To: Hostage

Were the “purse and scrip”, mentioned in the same breath as the “sword” reference, also a matter of interacting with Temple guards?
For that matter, where in that section are “Temple guards” referred to? I’m not seeing it.

That verse brackets one at the beginning of His ministry, where He tells them to give up those things and put their full faith and needs in him, right down to giving up money and bags to carry stuff. Then, here at the end of His ministry, He directs them to take those items back up again - and includes swords as a new item in the list.

Note too that a couple disciples already had swords in their immediate possession, so one may presume they were carrying ‘em about for a while and He was fully away of the fact (both in omniscient knowledge and in the mundane fact it’s hard to keep a >2-foot razor blade hidden for very long when you’re living in a hot climate and not carrying much else to conceal it). His response to “here, we have two” wasn’t “huh? what? WHY? get rid of ‘em already!” (nor was it “nice start, now all of you arm yourselves to the teeth”). Nor, when used for defense or thereafter, did He direct them to get rid of the things.

BTW: don’t forget He beat the snot out of those selling things in the Temple, and when asked about defending himself opined that he had a legion of angels at His command (implication was He wasn’t going to have them sung into compliance).


39 posted on 05/17/2012 2:19:58 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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To: Hostage

Turning the tables over as he drove the vendors from the Temple would have earned Him a retraining order and creating a public disturbance charge today.....


51 posted on 05/17/2012 2:51:29 PM PDT by G Larry (Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding)
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