Posted on 04/26/2012 7:39:45 AM PDT by ex-Texan
How did breast cancer survivor Lisa Lindsay end up behind bars? She didn't pay a medical bill -- one the Herrin, Ill., teaching assistant was told she didn't owe. "She got a $280 medical bill in error and was told she didn't have to pay it," The Associated Press reports. "But the bill was turned over to a collection agency, and eventually state troopers showed up at her home and took her to jail in handcuffs."
Although the U.S. abolished debtors' prisons in the 1830s, more than a third of U.S. states allow the police to haul people in who don't pay all manner of debts, from bills for health care services to credit card and auto loans. In parts of Illinois, debt collectors commonly use publicly funded courts, sheriff's deputies, and country jails to pressure people who owe even small amounts to pay up, according to the AP.
Under the law, debtors aren't arrested for nonpayment, but rather for failing to respond to court hearings, pay legal fines, or otherwise showing "contempt of court" in connection with a creditor lawsuit. * * *
"Creditors have been manipulating the court system to extract money from the unemployed, veterans, even seniors who rely solely on their benefits to get by each month," Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan said last month * * *
Such practices, heightened in recent years by the effects of the recession, amount to criminalizing poverty, say critics in urging federal authorities to intervene. "More people are unemployed, more people are struggling financially, and more creditors are trying to get their debt paid," Madigan told the AP
(Excerpt) Read more at finance.yahoo.com ...
I walked away from my student debt. They caught up with me. I’m slowly repaying.
The courts are also culpable in the process and should also take blame and punishment.
LOL !
The essential problem goes far beyond real estate and is found in the very corrupt Federal Reserve system we live under -- which issues almost worthless fiat currency -- and the private banking cartel that runs the system gets to charge interest on every dollar that is printed to the taxpayer.
Read this: The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve
I was too, until I learned about "points", now I pay for everything I can by credit card.
I bought a new car about a year ago and tried to get the dealer to let me pay with a credit card, he wouldn't go for it though. The $20,000 balance, after trade in, I wanted to pay by card would have cost him 3%, ($600).
I haven't paid credit card interest in many years.
When you don't pay for things by card, you are indirectly subsidizing those who do.
I have a daughter...that will have a 4 yr degree in Legal Studies this yr....and it didn't cost her OR me...( Ha!! ) an arm and a leg.
She went to a J.C. first..and got her A.S. and a creditial...( Para-legal ).
FWIW-
I think we are taking the ‘billing mistake’ at face value...and maybe we shouldn’t.
1. Did she receive services? Yes
2. Was she responsible for the bill? Yes.
If there was some confusion over how much insurance was supposed to pay etc., its still her responsibility to make sure the bill gets paid. Its that simple.
In alot of ways, this story reminds me of the Trayvon Martin case - we are presented with a victim, with very few details, and a slanted story....this makes me immediately suspicious. The details we weren’t given probably do not advance the story.
What about it?!?!?!
How about Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4 of the Constitution of the United States?
Nothing in there about it!!
It refers to “uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies”
It does NOT say anybody has a right to file backrupty for any reason!
If you get billed for something that was not yours then you are not responsible for it.
we are presented with a victim, with very few details, and a slanted story....this makes me immediately suspicious. On that we can agree.
I always paid all my bills on time and had excellent credit. I had a modest mortgage and a home equity loan, a car payment (leased) and unfortunately some credit card debt, mostly because of my self employment at the time, debt I inherited and incurred during my divorce and some unexpected home repairs and car repair expenses and a few medical bills, but in total, not an outrageous amount but still enough, too much but very manageable while I was working – less than 15k in total, excluding the 30 year conventional mortgage after 20k down of 140k at 5 ¼%, for a house appraise for 180k, but I had an excellent job and a rather high income so at the time so it didn’t seem a problem.
But when I lost my job in 2009 and being that I was technically an “independent contractor” for my last employer, I was really screwed as I didn’t even qualify for unemployment benefits.
So I went from 70k per year to zero income in a heartbeat.
As the economy really sucked and my job prospects were very poor in my industry, I prioritized my bills – mortgage, utilities including my cell phone which was my only phone, basic groceries (and I’m talking a beans and rice and raman noodles subsistence), car lease payment and car insurance. I had enough in reserve in savings including cashing out my roll over 401k to float me on these for about 12 months. And of course there were the funds in savings that I put aside for the IRS to make my quarterly self employment taxes and the tax penalties on the early withdrawal from my 401k. Everyone else went to the bottom of the list – that being credit card debt and medical bills. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to pay -I just didn’t have the funds it to pay them.
I reached out to all my creditors to apprise them of my situation and to work whatever terms I could. Mostly what I got was “I’m so sorry but you still need to make the minimum payment” or “We will make a note on your account regarding your call”. Even after I contacted these companies, they still called me, some every single day or at least once a week. One debt collector who I called back to explain my situation was incredibly rude and nasty and said to me, “Well, you’re calling me from a cell phone so you can’t be all that bad off if you still have a phone – and if you can afford a cell phone and you obviously haven’t starved to death yet, then you should be able to pay me and if not, just where are you getting your money from? I want to know who is supporting you – I want to know who they are and how I can contact them. Somebody is obviously supporting you and your “life style” that allows you to eat and have a cell phone and since you obviously must have family and or friends with money who support you, you can just borrow more money from them since they have it. You just really need to borrow more from them so you can pay your debt to XYZ Company”. ;(,
I wish I was joking or making this up but this is what this scum bag actually said to me and why I think and at least in my experience, some if not many debt collectors are the most bottom feeders of the lowest bottom feeders.
At that point, in tears and incredibly angry and upset, I just hung up on him and I stopped answering any more phone calls from creditors all together. All the collection letters I got were opened, read and then dutifully put into a file. This was not the only creditor BTW who “suggested” that I hit up my family and friends for a loan in order to pay my bill – I didn’t think that was legal, nor calling before 8:00 AM or after 9:00 PM or on weekends or holidays, but in my experience some collection companies do that anyway.
After a year of being unemployed, I eventually got a part time minimum wage retail job, sold my house in a short sale (I was just barely under water (less than 2k) but only because of the very depressed market) and I moved in with my niece while I struggled to get myself and my finances back in order, eventually getting a full time job but at less than half the income I previously made.
For a time after getting back to work, I sent some money to my creditors but since it was much less than the minimum they expected, it only increased the level of harassment that not extended to calling me and my place of work but also calling and harassing my relatives and friends and former employers – again, some things that were probably illegal but some of they did it anyway.
Then one day I received via certified mail a court notice that I was being served in court seeking a judgment against me by one of my creditors. The very next thing I did was contact a lawyer; he answered the judgment on my behalf and then we (I) file bankruptcy. Next I received a certified letter from the IRS saying they were going to levy my wages because when I filed my taxes and remitted a payment, the payment didn‘t fully cover my liability. The next thing I did was make an appointment at the local IRS office.
Bankruptcy was the very last thing I ever wanted to do and I still feel rather sick about it today as it was my intention, after getting back on my feet, to pay off all my debt. And bankruptcy wasn’t something I could really afford to do at the time; it cost me about $ 1,200. I used the small amount of money I had put aside to buy a used car and a move into a modest apartment and out of my niece’s house in order to pay for the bankruptcy and court costs.
But the bottom line is that while you may ignore harassing phone calls and letters from creditors; and I certainly got to the point where it was completely futile explaining over and over again that I didn’t have the money to pay what they wanted me to pay and was tired of hearing the verbal abuse that some resorted to; you just don’t ignore official court orders or official notices from the IRS. The bankruptcy gave me a clean start; one I hope and never intend to have to go through again, and I worked out a payment plan with the IRS to avoid a payroll garnishment- and I diligently make payments every month – something I will do for several more years. Surprisingly the IRS was and has been so far, pretty good and fair to deal with once I negotiated with them.
If you can reasonably work something out with a creditor, you should; if you can’t and they are completely unreasonable, I can understand ignoring them, but when you get an official court summons, that’s something you just don’t ignore - ever – even if you think the debt is not yours or is an illegitimate claim.
Not paying a debt to a creditor, legitimate or not, will not land you in jail. Not answering a court summons to appear in court or answer the summons however will.
You said it!
Read the book in 2007. It was like a preview.
But it is also a bit to much for most.
“So you think people should be allowed to accumulate debt and then just walk away from it leaving the creditor with a loss of the money?”
Let me know when you raise a posse to go after the banks, politicians and federal government who created massive debt, walked away and left you, me and our kids holding the bag.
I’ll ride shotgun.
The fact’s that u have in your post i’s amazing. It amaze’s me that the’se thing’s kan happen and that the court’s let the’se thing’s happen. Men haf very littel wright’s in the court’s.
His wife makes $12k/month, and he put her through school. His divorce cost him $500k and he had to go on food stamps. The system is inherently unfair to men.
One truth that I want to share with you is that life is often daunting and circumstances get pretty wicked at times. But nothing is as daunting as major health issues. I have been battling health problems since 2002 and my health issues are more complex today than ever before. I believe people battling cancer should not ever be harassed unmercifully by debt collectors. As long as you have your health you have much to be grateful for and that fact alone goes a long way to helping you triumph as a billing harassment survivor. Thanks again.
Let me know when you raise a posse to go after the banks, politicians and federal government who created massive debt, walked away and left you, me and our kids holding the bag.
Try answering the question that was asked instead of changing the subject to something completely irrelevant. Do you think a person should be able to borrow money and then just say to the creditor "oops, can't pay it back too bad you're out the money?"
I’ve had some health issues too but thankfully nothing too serious and I have a whole lot to be grateful for especially my niece and her husband who took me in, fed me and loaned me their car to look for work and eventually get to work when I had nothing – flat broke and jobless. I don’t know where I would have ended up without them – it could have been a homeless shelter – I shudder to even think of that. If it had not been for them and a good friend and the good fortune of selling my house with the help of a great real estate agent, going to settlement two days before the foreclosure, I could have ended up on the streets.
But with their help and me not giving up, I eventually got a new and better paying job last July and two years ago moved into my own apartment and bought a car so things are looking up. As much as I didn’t want to do it, tried to avoid it, the bankruptcy was the best thing at the time. It was such a relief just to have the harassment stop.
I had incurred some medical debt because my previous employer moved us to a high deductible health plan with an HRA that had a $3,000 deductible for a single person and Rx’s didn’t even count toward the deductible. And the employer only funded half of the deductible through the HRA. High deductible health plans with an HSA or HRA are great but only if you are young (and at 50, I’m not so young any more) and healthy, don’t go to the doctor’s much and have time to accumulate funds for future use.
Unlike an FSA, with an HSA or HRA you can only use the funds that have been actually deposited to your account. So if, like me your employer moves you to one of those plans and shortly afterward, you incur medical bills, you have to pay out of pocket and wait to be reimbursed as the funds accumulate. In my case, early in the first year of the new plan, during a routine physical my doctor didn’t like something he saw on my EKG and ordered a nuclear stress test (and wow, was that expensive!) and some lab tests. Thankfully I was given the all clear and I’m glad I had it done to make sure there wasn’t a serious heart problem but I put some of the charges on a credit card as I only had about $100 in my HRA at the time and thought I’d be able to recoup through the HRA and pay off the CC debt – then I got laid off and then, rather than go on unemployment for the first time in my life, I took a job with a former supervisor but as an independent contractor – no benefits. Big mistake and something I’ll never do again.
Even though my finances had been good, I thought I was a “saver” and pretty frugal and had a good paying job, debt, any debt is a killer! No matter how much you think you have saved for that “rainy day” when it’s starts pouring it’s often not nearly enough. And unfortunately many companies farm out their debt collections to third parties, some of whom barely operate within the law and a few flagrantly violate them like the one I mentioned.
Today I live very simply and very frugally, more so than ever before. I have no debt, only have rent, utilities and car and renter’s insurance. I put as much as I can into my 401k and into a savings account. I have one credit card with a $500 limit that I opened to reestablish some credit and occasionally I use it for gasoline and then immediately pay it off. I cut coupons and bargain shop and the last major purchase I made was for a new TV and I paid cash for it. It took me a year to save for that and meanwhile I was watching TV on an old tube TV that the color gun had gone bad so I watched TV in B&W for the last two years. And that wasn’t all that bad : ). Just having a roof over my head, a working car and meeting my basic necessities and not being supported by someone else is great.
And most of all I learned what’s really important in life. Money and material things, while nice, are temporary and transitory. Family and good friends who stand by you through thick and thin are worth their weight in gold.
BTW, this story might be of interest to here who don’t believe that debt collectors can be unscrupulous.
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