Posted on 03/22/2012 9:40:06 AM PDT by Fennie
A Marine sergeant who started a Facebook group that is openly critical of President Barack Obama and posted comments saying he will not follow the unlawful orders of the commander in chief is facing possible dismissal from the Corps.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
The Constitution says the President is CIC. Its terrible that voters elected this loser as CIC, but it is what it is.
As much as I may agree with this Marine’s commentary, as a former Marine myself I have to take the position that, as a member of the U.S. Military, your right to free speech is somewhat restricted in regards to the Chain of Command, and thus you cannot openly disrespect the Office of the Presidency, no matter how incompetent the current holder of said office may be; disregarding this you subject yourself to the U.C.M.J. . This being said, Semper Fi Marine.
I am sure that people who have really been in a concentration would whole heartedly agree with you.
Except maybe for that whole "oven" thing.
Maybe about free will to leave too.
Out of curiosity who has forced you to use Facebook against your will?
It amazes me that so many educated FReepers don't understand that the government has more assets than Facebook.
Punitive Articles of the UCMJ
Article 88—Contempt toward officials
Text.
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;
This marine is not in violation of his oath. That artical applies to commissioned officers. The marine is a noncom, he can not be court martialed under artical 88.
In uniform, on face book, critiquing the presidents performance is legal but you must be so so careful not to cross a line and that line is in different places for each who reads your critique.
Being a crusty old retired Chief, my advice to all in uniform, especially young commissioned officers, is do not do this while wearing your uniform and do not specifically ID yourself as active duty.
The key in the oath concerning this Marine is “I will obey the orders of the President of the United States”. Unless Congress says otherwise, I believe all his orders are lawful.
Thank you for the clarification and for providing the text of the oath for the discussion.
From the text of the oath, it doesn't sound like "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States" is the key part of the sentence. The statement to obey the president is qualified by the clause which follows it. In my opinion, the key part of the sentence is the part that says "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
This clause implies that the officer only swears to uphold the orders of the president which are in accordance to the set regulations and rules of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. If a president's orders are not in conformance to the regulations there is no requirement to obey. An enlisted man does not swear to obey all orders, even if unlawful. In fact, to obey presidential orders which are not in accordance with the UCMJ would be a direct breach of the oath the enlisted man took.
Also, I think it is important to note that the Uniform Code of Military Justice is a law passed by Congress and all legislation passed by Congress must conform to the US Constitution. Therefore, if any rule or regulation in the UCMJ contradicts the US Constitution, the soldier is not bound to obey those either. At least, that is what the oath sounds like it is saying to me.
i completely agree. i consider this marine brave, courageous and is doing what others in the military should be doing — which is speaking out against the illegal obama. this is EXACTLY what needs to be done. i also think he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. he specifically says that he would not follow orders to disarm american citizens. this speaks directly to obama’s NDAA move the other day. i don’t understand all the responses about military code, respecting the president and secrety of defense, etc. if and when such a situation arises where the military is ordered to arrest american citizens or seize private property based on obama’s orders, will the military say “well, just following orders,” “well, according to military code ###, we must obey this order”, etc.? that’s SO 1940s!
p.s.: wonder who the creep was that turned him in???
You are 100% correct. During induction training at boot camp, they had a special class just for this issue and they drummed that into your head at subsequent training; that was 1971 - 1975 when I went through it.
You are 100% correct. During induction training at boot camp, they had a special class just for this issue and they drummed that into your head at subsequent training; that was 1971 - 1975 when I went through it.
I some times wonder how many of our enlisted personnel actually understand or read the UCMJ or the Constitution. I will admit that when I was 18 years old and in the service, I didn’t know everything or understand everything in either one. I was too busy trying to learn what was required of me.
You are 100% correct. During induction training at boot camp, they had a special class just for this issue and they drummed that into your head at subsequent training; that was 1971 - 1975 when I went through it.
You're both correct. And if this Marine ever did follow any such un-Constitutional or unlawful orders from a CO, you should be able to guarantee a court-martial for murder. In addition he would be breaking the law according to Posse Comitatus.
Sounds like Sgt. Stein is due for a nice promotion in rank to me!;)
The key in the oath concerning this Marine is “I will obey the orders of the President of the United States”..................................... So I take it that you have accepted the “proven legitimate” President, so ask no questions, just obey? Maybe this marine has doubts, like many others, as to the legitimacy of this presidency? If in fact the President proves to be illegitimate, what then? Gotta see how this plays out.
I think this Marine has more personal problems than we know at the present. War has done this to many military personnel. At times they break and rage takes over. I don’t think this has anything to do with the President.
Obama fears the military because he knows that when the cards go down they will side with the American people, not the government.
The only reason I have a facebook account is to post my personal testimony of salvation by Jesus Christ.
I honestly believe anyone (civilian or military) naive enough to join Facebook deserves what they get. There is nothing to gain, and everything to lose as Facebook is a corporate marketing predator sucking up more about you every day of your life, that they will retain forever. Once in the system it will always be there. The stupid and reckless things that you do and say when immature and young will be there to ruin your life at 30, 50 or 70. Politicians 10-20 years from now will subject to political blackmail from items that they themselves posted in their youth.
FB is set up purposely to record every aspect of your life, your relatives your friends, your politics, photos of you and your friends, your events into the largest ever expanding database on individuals anywhere. Zuckerburg said he wants to remove privacy and anonymity as a concept.
We Americans fought for years the idea of a national identity card because we said we didn’t want our information in a national data base. Now Americans the sheep are enthusiastically giving up their life identity and privacy so that Facebook can own and sell your human identity to marketeers and government.
I don’t have any sympathy for sheep who follow pied pipers.
http://thenextweb.com/facebook/2011/05/02/heres-what-happens-when-the-police-subpoena-your-facebook/
“I don’t think you can be charged for stating that you will refuse to follow unlawful orders.
There has to be a lot more than that.”
You should be charged & dismissed for either stating otherwise or following unlawful orders. Any traitor among the ranks willing to follow unlawful orders must be rooted out and removed BEFORE they are given the chance.
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