Celani, Piantelli Geneva LENR Presentations

Celani, Piantelli Geneva LENR Presentations
January 9, 2012
Francesco Celani is a colourful and respected character in the evolving LENR scene. An experienced nuclear physicist, it was he who tried to sneek a peek at the radiation spectra during the January 2011 eCat demo before Rossi stopped him. An offer to test the eCat in order to settle the mud surrounding it was refused by the inventor who pointed out that such a move would only benefit competitors .

Celani has not been idle and recently reported success working with Ni H reactions. It appears that his efforts do not lie on a single line as he explores the field in different directions. According to reports on 22passi, he will present an interesting result during the UN WSEC sustainable energy conference in Geneva (10-12 Jan). From 22passi and translated by Google:
In these weeks our group, working with long and thin wires having the surface coated with micro-nano-particles, get re-confirmation of a phenomenon, by us, seldom observed in some previous experiments: the specific alloy used (Cu-Ni), that usually has Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) of the resistance, if absorbs large amount of Hydrogen, changes to Negative TC. Such phenomenon is correlated to anomalous heat production and increases as the anomalous heat increases. If such key phenomenon will be kept under full control, because its behaviour can be observed with simple instrumentation, it can be open the door to systematic work, worldwide, to find the “optimal” material and operating point .

If this result is verified, it could prove a powerful analytical tool when trying to discover the process underlying LENR. If the effect ranges over a number of materials and dopant strengths, a researcher may be able to use the switch in resistance as a marker to electronically signal when excess heat is optimal and with what mix of materials .

Compare the situation with that in 1989. Thousands of scientists around the world groped blindly for an effect as elusive as the Yeti. Now researchers understand (to an extent) why the reaction was so elusive and are able to create it at will. This is just the start. If Celani’s result holds, it could form part of a growing arsenal that will be brought to bear on the problem. With luck, we are seeing early signs of what’s to come .

Many people are angry at scientists, forgetting that it is they who will eventually take the ragged toddler that is LENR and push him to maturity .

Roy Virgilio also reports that Piantelli, the scientist many think is hot on the heels of Rossi, will also present something new and worthy .

The following tease was also posted by Roy (he has been reliable in the past). Translated by Google:
WSEC 2012, cold fusion becomes mainstream science! And ‘with great pleasure that we point out an extremely important international event to be held at the UN in Geneva 10 to 12 January 2012 and promises to change that finally and definitively the future of so-called “Cold Fusion”. ‘s “International Sustainable Energy Organisation” (ISEO) UN organization, is preparing an international conference on sustainable energy that will be also emphasized on LENR studies and the results achieved in recent years. In fact it is un’ufficializzazione of this technology in front of politicians, organizations and companies around the world. Fortunately for us, and in recognition of the tremendous work carried out in recent years in our country, indeed the forefront of this sector, our speaker will be done by Francesco Celani INFN Frascati. I am attaching the final abstract of the speech Celan (which will have a plenary session of about 15 minutes worldwide and two hours in workgroups of scientists) and the agenda of the day (Celani and LERNA be found in Group III). Good read …. and that is the right time that the subject of cold fusion and funded as it should be reassessed to arrive in our homes as soon as possible. The world could change for the better. Roy
Exciting times .

[With thanks to Ivan Mohorovicic]

Thanks for answering my questions.

It appears that if any of these reactors go into thermal runaway, we're only talking about the melting of the reactants and nothing nuclear? Even so, taking Rossi at face value, I know the regulations will kill him all around the world. I hate the idea that the left always says they're worried about safety and the environment and it seems that in the end, they really want us back in the stone age except for them as they're so enlightened.

I still don't see how Rossi adds heat to slow the reaction down but I'm not going to worry about it.

Who is our "Bell Labs" in the 21st century?

I took a look at ICCF15 on LENR.org at it is not casual reading. I'm tempted to print it out because I still like books, especially in large print. Reading 32 pages on a computer is brutal and since it's no where near my area I need to read it in one sitting or I'll forget what I've read.

Well... I was pointing out the absurdity of Rossi having to wear a heavy winter coat in a small room with a running E-Cat. If you look at the photos from the "Megawatt" test, they were all wearing winter coats there as well, even though a genuine Megawatt (or half-Megawatt as they were claiming) device would be putting out so much heat that the place should have been a sauna. It's interesting that no one at the big dog & pony show mentioned noticing any heat coming from the shipping container or heat exchanger.

One of the things the journalist Krivit pointed out is that according to his calculations using Rossi's data, they should have been swimming in water.

The only problem is, I've never seen a complete diagram from the complete system to see how it worked. I saw the big heat exchanger in photos and I know how I would have set it up but who knows? Especially if you're going for maximum efficiency, you don't use cold tap water, you use the already warmed water that has been condensed in a closed system. Have you seen a diagram of the test setup?

You know, Rossi used to answer casual emails as long as you don't try to bait him, I wonder if he still does? He speaks reasonably fluent English; I wonder if it's worth figuring out what the best question to ask is if he only answers one?

I certainly can't trust anything from Sterling Allan. I wonder how much money he's given to people like Joseph Newman and Tilley??

• Here’s my standard ‘ignore’ post to Code Toad.
This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. Since you have degenerated into unsubstantiated accusations of calling a fellow Freeper a liar (and a liberal) without backing it up, you have demonstrated that you are not here to discuss things on a level that Free Republic intended.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2815573/posts?page=17#17

Yeah, if he sells systems, "it's a scam". If he doesn't sell systems, "it's a scam". Same old blah, blah, blah from you as always.

There's no evidence that he's actually sold a unit. His silly little dog & pony show with his "secret" customer and "secret" NATO Colonel is laughable.

One legitimate customer acknowledging that they have a working E-Cat would end the skepticism.

And, by "legitimate", I mean a company with a real history and a history with D&B. I don't mean something like AmpEnergo, which is nothing more than a bare web page and which is "sharing" the same rental office as Rossi's company.

"I still don't see how Rossi adds heat to slow the reaction down but I'm not going to worry about it."

A lot of people get hung up on this, but it's not complicated. There are three factors involved...1)heat production by the cartridge heater, 2)heat production by the "anomalous reaction", and 3) heat removal by flowing/boiling water. The sum of these things results in a system "in balance" (constant temperature).

"If" the temperature sensors in the reaction chamber show an anomalous increase, it is very easy and fast (and uses cheap and easily available automatic controls) to reduce the electric current to compensate. Remember, the flow of water is constant, so the heat removal capacity stays the same. The larger the percentage of heat input by the cartridge heater, the more "responsive" your control will be, because the rate of heat removal from the "anomalous reaction" once electric current is reduced is much higher.

Alternatively, you can accomplish the same thing by varying the coolant flow, but the equipment to do this is more expensive and more complex. I suspect that Rossi's (purportedly) more rapid progress after National Instruments got involved was largely due to the ability to automatically monitor and more importantly control, both input current AND coolant flow.

"Who is our "Bell Labs" in the 21st century?"

Good question. At this point, I'm not sure there "is" one.

"I took a look at ICCF15 on LENR.org at it is not casual reading. I'm tempted to print it out because I still like books, especially in large print.

Have Kindle?? You can download the PDF and read it there. (Note...I have NOT tried this, so don't know if it is actually a workable solution).

"Reading 32 pages on a computer is brutal and since it's no where near my area I need to read it in one sitting or I'll forget what I've read."

Yeah. I'm about 2/3'ds of the way into the first half. I do it "paper by paper", which breaks it into doable chunks.

Am I reading this correctly? I thought he added heat to slow the reaction. That's what didn't make sense but I see things that are counter intuitive all the time like adding water to a fission reactor can actually speed up the reaction since it's a neutron moderator like we saw in Japan.

I assume he can also control the flow of hydrogen but from what I've read. He purges the container of all gasses and then he introduces the H2 under pressure and then stops the flow and I thought he wasn't topping off the H2. It's possible that enough H2 is in the system to run twelve hours but for six months, I would assume that he has to replenish the H2 in the reaction chamber so he would need to control that as well. I wonder how having an H2 tank affects certification? People will bring up the Hindenburg and forget the 250 gallon propane tank in their backyard.

It sounds like using something with a higher boiling temperature than water would allow him more control by varying the flow.

"Who is our "Bell Labs" in the 21st century?"

Good question. At this point, I'm not sure there "is" one.

So are we ceding our scientific advances to other countries, that doesn't sound good in the long run.

A good example: You spent most of last year saying that Rossi couldn't be a con man, because a con man would not let his gadget be independently tested by a University.

This is exactly what Randal Mills is doing with his hydrinos and Rowan university and they are still working with him. This brings up a question, is the university blinded by Mill's cash that they would turn a blind eye towards Mill's hydrino theory or do they think something is there?

Mills has great credentials like:
Dr. Mills was awarded a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Chemistry, summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from Franklin & Marshall College in 1982, and a Doctor of Medicine Degree from Harvard Medical School in 1986. Following a year of graduate work in electrical engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dr. Mills began his research in the field of energy technology.

Those aren't exactly the credentials of an underachiever although I wonder why he didn't go into medicine.

What about Mill's software that models the atom based on his TOE (theory of everything)? I haven't downloaded his latest version but I did over a year ago and it's a full blown software package. So, someone has to understand Mill's TOE and was able to put it in a software package. Unless Mills writes software as well.

Mill's BLP is well funded and has an excellent building and location with a full lab. I forgot who had the building last but I read that Mills got it for a song and it already had an enormous vacuum chamber.

Are Mills and all his associates so blinded by confirmation blindness that they ignore reality? Last time I took a good look at BLP, their process was being scaled up but now it seems that it works for 24 hours or so and then stabilizes down to under unity performance.

It's easy to see the scam behind people like Joseph Newman and Tilley, but what is BLP's scam and how did he get so many people to fall for it?

I haven't researched Blacklight beyond a quick look at Wikipedia, so I can't speculate on the details of that company, but it is informative to compare and contrast Blacklight to Rossi.

This is exactly what Randal Mills is doing with his hydrinos and Rowan university and they are still working with him.

This is in contrast to Rossi, who put a great deal of effort into trying to claim ties to the University of Bologna that never existed. He did get some of their professors to attend his dog & pony shows, but they were apparently freelancing (and shame on them for allowing Rossi to "borrow" the credibility of their employer when there was no such relationship).

Dr. Mills was awarded a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Chemistry, summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from Franklin & Marshall College in 1982, and a Doctor of Medicine Degree from Harvard Medical School in 1986. Following a year of graduate work in electrical engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dr. Mills began his research in the field of energy technology.

Hmm... no signs of criminal convictions for fraud. That's one big difference. Rossi has been convicted numerous times for fraud, racketeering and money laundering, and spent considerable time in jail throughout the 1990s and 2000s. His fans try to claim that it was all just a big misunderstanding, but according to a decades' worth of newspaper articles I reviewed, Rossi was clearly guilty of several independent criminal operations over a period of a decade or more (unsure since the Internet archives I reviewed only went back to 1990).

Mill's BLP is well funded and has an excellent building and location with a full lab.

Rossi has a rented office, which he shares with the company (AmpEnergo) that "purchased" the American distribution rights to the E-Cat. No signs of any manufacturing facility (although he claims to be selling E-Cats today).

I also note that Blacklight has actually named companies that have purchased licenses from them, and the one customer I checked had a press release confirming the licenses. No signs of anything actually coming of it (and it could have been a license for "one dollar and other considerations" solely for the purpose of publicity.

Rossi, on the other hand, claims to have customers, but refuses to name any of them.

"There's no evidence that he's actually sold a unit. His silly little dog & pony show with his "secret" customer and "secret" NATO Colonel is laughable."

There's no evidence he didn't, either. And the technical witnesses didn't think that the evaluator was "laughable". Their opinion on that score was that the evaluator was very knowledgeable about the technical issues involved.

Face it, JB....YOU'VE GOT NOT ONE HARD PIECE OF EVIDENCE OF FRAUD. Your whole "case" is completely circumstantial, and would be laughed out of any courtroom you brought it to. But you are "absolutely certain" that it's fraud. Sorry, but it's your "evidence" that is laughable. I've looked into enough of your links to find out that there is certainly "reasonable doubt".

"Am I reading this correctly? I thought he added heat to slow the reaction."

No. Remember, he QUENCHES the reaction by increasing the coolant flow and cutting the external heat supply.

"I assume he can also control the flow of hydrogen but from what I've read. He purges the container of all gasses and then he introduces the H2 under pressure and then stops the flow and I thought he wasn't topping off the H2. It's possible that enough H2 is in the system to run twelve hours but for six months, I would assume that he has to replenish the H2 in the reaction chamber so he would need to control that as well."

Control of the hydrogen flow is a VERY slow-acting control mechanism. You're right in that just the hydrogen inside the reactor will continue to react for a long time. Controlling the hydrogen PRESSURE "might" be a faster acting control parameter, but again, controlling pressure is more expensive and takes more hardware than controlling the heat input via a cartridge heater. If you remember, VENTING the hydrogen and rapidly dropping the internal hydrogen pressure of the "core" is/was his "emergency shutdown" case of last resort if cutting the added heat and increasing the coolant flow wasn't enough to get it stopped.

"So are we ceding our scientific advances to other countries, that doesn't sound good in the long run."

Well, it's not quite that bad. There are plenty of other very large companies with good R&D organizations. But there needs to be a bit of a turn-around in management thinking on the value of R&D, or we will be in a world of hurt.

And the technical witnesses didn't think that the evaluator was "laughable".

What degrees does this "evaluator" have? Where did he go to school? What specific jobs has he held? The fact is, in spite of the intense interest in this whole story, no one has been able to dig up one shred of evidence that this guy even exists. You know absolutely nothing about this guy except that Rossi vouches for him.

YOU'VE GOT NOT ONE HARD PIECE OF EVIDENCE OF FRAUD.

That's true. If I had hard evidence, I wouldn't be posting on a web site, I would be contacting the FBI.

Rossi could have proven that he's legitimate at any time in the last year, yet he has steadfastly refused to do so. That, of course, is his privilege.

But, based on his long history as a criminal in Italy, and his consistent refusal to do anything to prove his case, it take a real chump to just accept his claims.

No. Remember, he QUENCHES the reaction by increasing the coolant flow and cutting the external heat supply.

OK, I'm a moron, because I thought I read he increased the heat to slow the reaction. I'll try to find what made me think that.

It makes perfect sense to keep the heater on and at idle, you increase the heat to increase the reaction if it lags so you're not starting it cold which takes time, you increase the water flow to decrease the reaction, now that makes perfect sense.

The hydrogen is definitely a slow reaction. I watched two videos during lunch and it showed a fat-cat that they had just added 3 grams of H2 which actually seems to be a lot of hydrogen considering it's weight and I'm way to lazy to attach a volume to that. Then they shut it off. It seems that it runs fine and then they top it off again so I don't know how much of a fine control they need for the H2.

But there needs to be a bit of a turn-around in management thinking on the value of R&D, or we will be in a world of hurt.

I've worked for two startups where although they paid well, the big payoff was the stocks since we put in 12 to 16 hours days because we believed in the product and it did pay off. Where are the VCs for this kind of research? The CEOs for both of the companies I worked for got big VC dollars after they did the proof of concept so what's the deal? Everyone used to talk about 'Microsoft millionaires', if this technology pays off were talking about LENR billionaires. Especially if Facebook is worth billions which I don't understand since I don't use Facebook. Are we becoming more narcissistic or what; what is Facebook selling?

I actually made it home early.

I drove to work today and there's something highly motivating about driving a barely legal street car/ race car where you can take every up-shift at over 8,000 RMPs, with the over rev buzzer going off every shift. It's amazing what an engine with three moving parts can do with a little work.

Now I've got time and energy to get to the articles I was going to wait for this weekend. I forgot to print out the ICCF15 at work utilizing their laser printer instead of my ink jet which is fine for one page, not so good for 32.

BLP's process is nickel and hydrogen based as well. What are they seeing that justifies the universities continued association?

If I have to go back to Europe in the next month, I'll have them send me out a day or two early, have Milano as the destination airport and either drive or take their excellent trains to Bologna. I've driven through there before and Bologna's freeway system is a marvel going through mountains, the side of mountains, it's pretty cool. I'll email Rossi before I fly out, give him my bona-fides and see if he'll meet me.

There's nothing like a face to face to suss out the operation and maybe he'll be generous and show me what he's working on. Of course, he could also blow me off which is the point of finding out before scheduling flights although a day or two near the Italian Riviera would be nice.

"What degrees does this "evaluator" have? Where did he go to school? What specific jobs has he held? The fact is, in spite of the intense interest in this whole story, no one has been able to dig up one shred of evidence that this guy even exists. You know absolutely nothing about this guy except that Rossi vouches for him."

The witnesses, who were of high technical expertise themselves, were judging the exhibited expertise of the evaluator, which they rated high. If that isn't sufficient for you, I don't see what else would be convincing. Specific jobs held, where schooled, are irrelevant to the judgement of expertise. For that, they don't even need to know the guy's name.

"If I had hard evidence, I wouldn't be posting on a web site, I would be contacting the FBI.

LOL. What a maroon you are. You're not worth wasting further bandwidth on.

I looked into BLP long ago, but not recently. He seems to be putting out a lot of data, including peer-reviewed papers, but they seem to be being ignored. Any competent chemist should be able to tell the reality or not of his theory by some simple spectroscopic tests on his "hydrino" compounds. But I have seen no evidence that such tests have been done by independent parties (they may well have been done in the several years since my last look. As you indicate, the people he has backing him are not the sorts to provide such backing without some pretty hard evidence.

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