Progressives and the Ron Paul fallacies

As I’ve written about before, America’s election season degrades mainstream political discourse even beyond its usual lowly state. The worst attributes of our political culture — obsession with trivialities, the dominance of horserace “reporting,” and mindless partisan loyalties — become more pronounced than ever. Meanwhile, the actually consequential acts of the U.S. Government and the permanent power factions that control it — covert endless wars, consolidation of unchecked power, the rapid growth of the Surveillance State and the secrecy regime, massive inequalities in the legal system, continuous transfers of wealth from the disappearing middle class to large corporate conglomerates — drone on with even less attention paid than usual.

Because most of those policies are fully bipartisan in nature, the election season — in which only issues that bestow partisan advantage receive attention — places them even further outside the realm of mainstream debate and scrutiny. For that reason, America’s elections ironically serve to obsfuscate political reality even more than it usually is.

ron paul IS A DISGRACE to the uniform.

He used his position to undermine the war effort in Vietnem by removing otherwise healthy pilots and aircrews from flight status thus further endangering those already in theater by forcing them to fly more and more missions.

Your heerow claims to support the troops to their faces, while telling them to get bent behind their backs. He voted against better pay and benefits, better living conditions, better equipment, and on top of all that has called them war criminals.

He claims to be an “expert” on the Constitution, yet he doesnt hold a JD in Constitutional Law. And I highly doubt that he even reads the Constitution since he voted against every defense spending bill since being in office, thus putting him in violation of Article 1, Section 8 of the very Constitution he’s an “expert” of.

Then there is his teaming up with the likes of dennis kucinich to investigate 9/11.

And even more disturbing is his teaming up with barney frank (of all people) for the creation of the “Sustainable Defense Task Force”. This task force seeks to completely gut the military, and cut all pay and benefits.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2827718/posts

A majority of the members on the task force are all tied to non other than george soros.

I bet your dad wont be laughing when your village retard heerow’s buddies on the SDTF cut his benefits.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. You have been on Free Republic for 13 years; I have been on here for 11 years. Dr. Ron Paul’s views have not changed. My U.S. Senator (and his son) Dr. Rand Paul’s views have not changed. But the majority of Free Republic and the Republican Party sure have changed. So the sheep who blindly follow Unfit Mitt or Newt World Order Gingrich can flame me now if they like. I don’t give a damn. I tell them to kiss my ass.

Same here. I left FR for a while because I couldn't stand the warmongering cries from many supposed "Christian" conservatives screaming for the spilling of innocent Muslim blood because they "hate our freedoms". Give me a f'ing break. They seek only candidates who virtually guarantee a war if elected.

I'm back after a few years away, and it's become a neo-con utopia. The concept of a true free republic has long faded. About all that's left here are juvenile, name-calling statists who probably check under their beds at night to make sure there's no terrorists with nukes hiding under there.

This is a great article and should be mandatory reading before the election. I hope more people will take the red pill and realize that the GOP and Dem parties are two sides of the same progressive coin. They are both going to take us to the same place - a new order hell where the freedoms that the founding fathers fought for are gone. Please read Orwell's 1984 - that is where we are going. The only person in this election who will work to preserve our country and our freedom is Ron Paul.

Uh, yeah, but it sounds like Ron Paul and the progressives of The Nation and salon.com are also two sides of the same coin.

This article is like a funhouse full of strange mirrors. There's this:

As Matt Stoller argued in a genuinely brilliant essay on the history of progressivism and the Democratic Party which I cannot recommend highly enough: “the anger [Paul] inspires comes not from his positions, but from the tensions that modern American liberals bear within their own worldview.” Ron Paul’s candidacy is a mirror held up in front of the face of America’s Democratic Party and its progressive wing, and the image that is reflected is an ugly one; more to the point, it’s one they do not want to see because it so violently conflicts with their desired self-perception.

But there's also this:

Still, for better or worse, Paul — alone among the national figures in both parties — is able and willing to advocate views that Americans urgently need to hear. That he is doing so within the Republican Party makes it all the more significant. This is why Paul has been the chosen ally of key liberal House members such as Alan Grayson (on Fed transparency and corruption), Barney Frank (to arrest the excesses of the Drug War) and Dennis Kucinich (on a wide array of foreign policy and civil liberties issues). Just judge for yourself: consider some of what Ron Paul is advocating on vital issues — not secondary issues, but ones progressives have long insisted are paramount — and ask how else these debates will be had and who else will advocate these views

Like Barney and Alan aren't part of the ugly face of American liberalism?

Bottom line: at least some of the anti-terrorism measures the government undertakes are useful, important, and necessary.

If Ron Paul opposes them, I oppose him.

How do you think the jihadists view the "Christian" American President George W. Bush announcing in a speech that God told him to invade Iraq? How freakin' kooky is that? There are fringe elements in every religion.

Please explain how we can afford to keep all of our military bases open around the world. You do know that WWII is over, right? Can we bring the troops home from Japan and Germany now? Also explain how we'll fund another war with another country, based on faulty -or flat out fraudulent- intelligence. WMD's anyone? Oh yeah, the oil we seize from Iran will pay for all of the military operations, right? They told us that about Iraq too.

Why do you neo-cons keep falling for the same lies? Do you have the memory of a goldfish?

Bullsh!t. Prove it.

Your heerow voted against better pay and benefits, better living conditions, better equipment

Again, prove it.

He claims to be an “expert” on the Constitution, yet he doesnt hold a JD in Constitutional Law.

Typical elitist thinking; The "JD" is not necessary, and I trust a doctor any day over your bloodsucking attorneys.

I bet your dad wont be laughing when your village retard heerow’s buddies on the SDTF cut his benefits.

Sure do appreciate your heartfelt concern, but my dad will be fine. He volunteered for the military to serve, and didn't do it for money. He is doing fine, without a government paycheck.

Truth, logic, and grammar aren't your strengths, are they?

I'm calling BS on your supposed conversations with Muslims. My daughter has a couple of Muslim friends in college - one of them from Iran - and they love America. Fear and paranoia are often signs of mental illness. You should have that checked out.

Call it anything you like. That is your privilege. However it should be noted that you have carefully avoided answering the question I posed and that was how the Ron Paul people square up with the notion the islamists and jihadists declare as their goal and that is the imposition of sharia law on the infidels i.e. America and the citizens of America.

These islamists and jihadists make no distinction between a Ron Paul supporter or George Bush. Again I ask you to explain how the stated goal of Ron Paul to "be nice" to these jihadists will deter them from their stated goal and that is establishing a caliphate over the entire world under sharia law.

I am sincerely asking you to please stop, put your unfounded emotions aside and think rationally about this for a moment:

In mostly-Christian America, a judge in Mississippi was forced to take down a display of the 10 commandments from his chamber wall. As I'm sure you're aware, the "war on Christmas" rages every season over Christian symbols. I've yet to see a Muslim behind any of these protests. You know this. I could go on with many other examples...

Just how far do you think the Islamic extremists would get with their super-spooky Sharia law in America? Regardless of how they tried to do it: through legislation, through some type of stealth campaign, through violence - how much of this tyranny would Americans (Christian/Jewish/secularist/atheist) tolerate? Seriously - I am laughing at the ridiculousness of this as I type. This truly scares you?

Look - I like Glenn Beck, but he's way over the top with his paranoid hype of the "Caliphate" boogeyman. He's using these fear tactics as a cattle prod to direct his listeners to support the military/industrial complex with their tax dollars so they can continue to build planes that never fly, ships that don't sail and other wasteful projects. This has traditionally been the Republican program of "job creation". It has nothing to do with national defense. Just another welfare program that makes the voters feel "safe" from the boogeyman terrorists.

As for world domination, let me ask you this: How many Muslim fundamentalists sit on the board of directors of the Federal Reserve? The IMF? How about the secretive Council on Foreign Relations? If you're not sure about what exactly these organizations do, I suggest you take a break from the fear-mongering hysteria and please look into them. Then, you'll find out who really threatens your freedom and security.

I don't expect a reply, as these facts cannot be argued without degrading into an emotional rant about "the Muslims comin' to kill us." Besides, my position on this issue actually requires reading and research, rather than simply listening to Glenn Beck's latest ghost story.

Just how far do you think the Islamic extremists would get with their super-spooky Sharia law in America? Regardless of how they tried to do it: through legislation, through some type of stealth campaign, through violence - how much of this tyranny would Americans (Christian/Jewish/secularist/atheist) tolerate? Seriously - I am laughing at the ridiculousness of this as I type. This truly scares you?

People laughed at Hitler too. By the time they woke up the Wehrmacht was goose stepping all over Europe. The fact is that the jihadists and their wild eyed ideology have already taken root in the western world.

In an earlier post you poo-pooed the concern for the spread of this fanatical belief which says that there is no god but allah. I say that you are just not connected with events that are happening all around you. I say that you just do not see the events happening around you. Either that or you choose to close your eyes and ignore the reality of the 1,209 mosques, most of which were constructed very recently in America. Just look at Detroit , or the spread of islam in the American prison system and and tell me a person should not be concerned.

Now I do not care if these islamists do their thing peacefully, but all the evidence points to islam being unable to co-exist with other religions. And if you need evidence you need to understand that this struggle is not new. Just look at the history of islam and how they have attempted through out history to impose their beliefs by the sword

Just read the Koran if you don't believe me on this fact

And this brings us back to the subject of Ron Paul. You again try to deflect this discussion into every other direction except Ron Paul's naive beliefs that say if we "leave them alone , that they will leave us alone".

Confront the facts head on. There is no evidence that Ron Paul's ideas of non intervention will enhance America security in the world. In fact history proves otherwise. Everytime America has tried to mind its own business, events have made it impossible for us to stay out of these problems around the world.

And sadly today is no different. I wish it were, but certain people and ideologies just make it where you have to end up kicking somebodies azz if you want to make them stop bothering you. Its sad but a fact of life. Sometimes you just have to fight to be left alone. The school yard or the world the dynamics are the same: An azz kicking sometimes is part of the discussion. And poor Ron Paul just doesn't understand that.

That's my take on the situation

Look - I like Glenn Beck, but he's way over the top with his paranoid hype of the "Caliphate" boogeyman. He's using these fear tactics as a cattle prod to direct his listeners to support the military/industrial complex with their tax dollars so they can continue to build planes that never fly, ships that don't sail and other wasteful projects. This has traditionally been the Republican program of "job creation". It has nothing to do with national defense. Just another welfare program that makes the voters feel "safe" from the boogeyman terrorists.

I do not care about Glenn Beck. He is just a personality on television and radio speaking his beliefs. His opinions do not influence my thinking. In fact I was aware of islam long before you or Glenn Beck were made aware of this creeping menace.

As for world domination, let me ask you this: How many Muslim fundamentalists sit on the board of directors of the Federal Reserve? The IMF? How about the secretive Council on Foreign Relations? If you're not sure about what exactly these organizations do, I suggest you take a break from the fear-mongering hysteria and please look into them. Then, you'll find out who really threatens your freedom and security

As for world domination I point out to you that islam was talking about this crap long before there was even an United States. You need to open a history book and try an understand the long history of islam and what is represents in the world.

And yes I acknowledge the points you bring up that you deem important to you and the rest of the Ron Paul supporters. I do understand where you are coming from

It is just that I strongly disagree with the Ron Paul position that says America needs to take an isolationist position is this very dangerous world. That is where I part company with Ron Paul

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