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Rep. Paul says defense bill assures ‘descent into totalitarianism’
thehill.com/ ^ | 12/26/11 09:25 | Jonathan Easley

Posted on 12/27/2011 7:25:47 AM PST by VU4G10

GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul warned that the National Defense Authorization Act, which was passed by Congress this month, will accelerate the country’s “slip into tyranny” and virtually assures “our descent into totalitarianism.”

“The founders wanted to set a high bar for the government to overcome in order to deprive an individual of life or liberty,” Paul, the libertarian congressman, said Monday in a weekly phone message to supporters. “To lower that bar is to endanger everyone. When the bar is low enough to include political enemies, our descent into totalitarianism is virtually assured. The Patriot Act, as bad as its violations against the Fourth Amendment was, was just one step down the slippery slope. The recently passed National Defense Authorization Act continues that slip into tyranny, and in fact, accelerates it significantly.”

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 4th; amendment; detained; fourth; gagdadbob; kook; onecosmosblog; paul; privacy; ron; tyranny
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To: PhilipFreneau

>>>Sorry, Rep. Paul, but I can’t listen to you, no matter how prescient your words are. After all, you’re a nut!<<<

Reread his statement again, slowly - it is obvious sarcasm ...


61 posted on 12/27/2011 9:00:08 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: semaj

So standing for a interpretation of the Constitution that is in favor of a strong National Security is being a statist?

Sorry but it is you who are a shill for Code Pink.

The next attack on American soil could be 300,000 dead one morning or even 3 million. I have not seen any great travesty against liberty created by the Patriot Act or any of the other things that Ron Paul and his Code Pink ilk cry about continually.

Just the fact that they also cry about those who opposed the Muslem Victory mosque at Ground Zero tells me enough about these Code Pink losers.


62 posted on 12/27/2011 9:04:56 AM PST by TheBigIf
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To: semaj

Yeah, I left off the “/s” tag to flush out the rabid anti-RP crowd. I don’t agree with him on many issues, but on this, he’s spot on. Where are the other big, bad “R”s on this blatant issue?


63 posted on 12/27/2011 9:07:34 AM PST by pingman (Durn tootin'; I like Glock shootin'!)
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To: TheBigIf
"I say BS."

For some reason I'm reminded of a tort reform advocate who get s a very rude awakening at the end of his 'successful' PI civil suit....

64 posted on 12/27/2011 9:08:06 AM PST by moehoward
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To: semaj

I heard the same thing about the Patriot Act as well and yet that law has worked well to protect our liberty without any real loss of liberty for the American people at all.

I work in the private sector unlike Ron Paul and a majority of those who complain about laws such as this.


65 posted on 12/27/2011 9:08:43 AM PST by TheBigIf
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To: An.American.Expatriate

I didn’t see any sarcasm.


66 posted on 12/27/2011 9:11:06 AM PST by PhilipFreneau
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To: Raider Sam
Everyone seems to want anyone who will talk “conservative,” whatever that means, but they run from the one guy who wants to change the scope of government because of one issue here or there.

The problem is Paul is not a conservative, he is a libertarian. There really is a big difference.

Conservatives = low domestic/entitlement spending, high defense spending/hawkish foreign policy.

Liberals - high domestic/entitlement spending, low defense spending/dovish foreign policy

Libertarian = low domestic/entitlement spending, low defense spending/dovish foreign policy.

Conservatives/Republicans are generally going to like libertarian domestic economic policy and hate the libertarian defense policy and dovish foreign policy. Liberals/Democrats are generally going to like the libertarian defense spending and dovish foreign policy and hate the libertarian domestic economic policy.

While these are obviously generalities, they basically hold true. Paul is simply not a conservative. Paul attracts sort of the extremes on both sides - conservatives that want nearly no domestic spending and liberals who want nearly no defense spending and a dovish foreign policy.

There is probably somewhat more sympathy for Paul among conservatives simply because those of us on the right distrust government more than those on the left. Still, conservatives support certain things government does - and that includes a large and powerful military and an hawkish foreign policy that aggressively defends our interests and allies. This dynamic simply is not going to change when it comes to libertarians trying to win elections. Paul won't be the nominee, because the bulk of Republican/conservative primary voters will not vote for a libertarian. Paul can offset this some with crossover voters, but it will never be enough to actually win a GOP nomination.

67 posted on 12/27/2011 9:22:35 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969
Conservatives = low domestic/entitlement spending, high defense spending/hawkish foreign policy.

Funny, I always thought that conservatives were different than republicans ....

68 posted on 12/27/2011 9:33:35 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: PhilipFreneau
I didn’t see any sarcasm.

See Post 53

69 posted on 12/27/2011 9:37:36 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: circlecity
Paul is dead wrong on this one. He does not understand what is and is not a declaration of war. He does not understand what the Constitution says about a declaration of war and what it does not say.
70 posted on 12/27/2011 9:38:57 AM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: GlockThe Vote

You are deceived about what the legislation actually says and means.


71 posted on 12/27/2011 9:41:06 AM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: Longbow1969

Conservatives arent a monolith. There are plenty of conservatives who dont want a hawkish foreign policy with high defense spending. Modern conservatism came from classical liberalism, which was not in favor of multiple foreign entanglements, which we are in now.

And you cant cut the government size without cutting defense spending. Right now, 70% of the government spending is between defense, Medicare, Social Security, and the interest. We dont need presence in 100 countries.

What passes today for conservatism is not what conservatism was in the early part of the 20th century. In reality, Ron Paul is the “conservative,” while many conservatives today are something different.


72 posted on 12/27/2011 9:42:00 AM PST by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: WhiskeyX

What does a declaration of war have to do with the passing of a law that allows the President to take American citizens off American streets and toss them into jail with no right of habeas corpus?


73 posted on 12/27/2011 9:43:14 AM PST by circlecity
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To: Venturer

You are being deceived by the misrepresentations of what the legislation actually says and means. In fact, doing what Ron Paul insists must be done would constitute a war crime, which is why Allen West and others rightly rejected Ron Paul’s claims.


74 posted on 12/27/2011 9:43:54 AM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: cpdiii

What Ron Paul is demanding would constitute a war crime. That is why Allen West, a former Army field grade officer found it necessary to reject Ron Paul’s unreasonable claims.


75 posted on 12/27/2011 9:46:31 AM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: TheBigIf
As to this specific piece of legisaltion I will admit I need to study it more but based upon the track record of Ron Paul and those who follow him I would say that we are being lied to again with the same old cries of tyranny.

Calling anyone a liar before you even know the truth yourself is just plain foolish. You might as well be a politician and a democrat at that.

Concerned Americans are alarmed with wording in the new DDA authorization bill, as voiced by several pundits independent of Ron Paul. The U.S. Constitution, provides Americans the right to voice grievances against our government. Were you asleep when the likes of Nancy Pelosi (At the time third in line for the Presidency), called Tea Partier's Terrorists? Whether you want to believe it or not, we are heading for a Police State complete with DHS/TSA jackbooted thugs - Obama's Civilian National Security Force under Napolitano, just as strong, just as well funded as our military.

Just look back at the DHS right-wing extremist document

The Declaration of Independence states:

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

We are rapidly heading there; and understandably, Obama and Congress, Democrat and Republican alike, seems to want to proactively dissuade any thought along those lines through implementation of indefinite detention, and executive orders giving Obama the ability to execute American Citizens without trial - as he sees fit. Just who Obama decides is a terrorist is the language raises a lot of concerns.

76 posted on 12/27/2011 9:47:20 AM PST by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: VU4G10

You know, Ron, if you weren’t just damned cuhhrazee...even if you are right on this.


77 posted on 12/27/2011 9:47:25 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: stockpirate

Of course they voted for the bill. Ron Paul is badly deluded about this legislatoin and clealry fails to understand it. What Ron Paul is demanding is an international war crime. You need to learn more about this matter and discover why what Ron Paul is demanding is so wrongful and criminal.


78 posted on 12/27/2011 9:49:19 AM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: broken_arrow1
Unfortunately, you like so many others are falling victim to the false propaganda of the “Progressive” lawyers, and Ron Paul's misguided and inept understanding of these matters. In fact, if he had the power to implement what he is demanding, immediate trial rather than indefinite detention during the belligerency, he would be committing a violation of the law of armed conflict and a war crime. By supporting this ill informed demand of Ron Paul, you too would be advocating the commission of war crimes. Before you go on, you and the other participants in this discussion need to step back long enough to discover why it would be wrongful and a war crime to do as Ron Paul and the complaining attorneys are demanding. You also need to learn and understand why it would be harmful to our own prisoners of war and the very civilians your are misguided into believing your are trying to protect.
79 posted on 12/27/2011 9:57:48 AM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: TheBigIf
I heard the same thing about the Patriot Act as well and yet that law has worked well to protect our liberty without any real loss of liberty for the American people at all.

No
real
loss of
liberty ...

1st Amendment - political speech can be deemed support for terrorism, at the discretion of the President.
5th Amendment - can be suspended at the discretion of the President,
4th Amendment - violated whenever traveling by plane, and lately by train.
6th Amendment - can suspended at the discretion of the President
8th Amendment - the President may order the assassination of any individual he determines is a terrorist.

Gee, you are right! We didn't loose anything.

80 posted on 12/27/2011 10:00:04 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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